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post #1 of (permalink) Old 05-07-2005, 11:12 PM Thread Starter
 
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Seating new bearing races

I replaced my front wheel bearings and races today because I was getting a growling sound when I first started driving. I jacked up the front end and spun the wheel, and it seemed kind of tight. I took it apart and found that there was plenty of grease, but that the inner race had galling and the some of the rollers on the inner bearing had damage to them. Kind looked like chunks had been galled from the surface. The outer bearing looked fine, but the outer race had a few rough spots.

I remove the old races, cleaned it up sparkling clean, and reassembled it.

I followed the instructions in my Chilton manual about seating the races by torquing the nut to 50 foot lbs. I did this in a few steps, turning the hub as I went. I then reached 50 ft lbs, backed it off a 1/4 turn and reassessed things. Seemed about right. So I put it back together.

What could have caused the old bearing and races to become damaged and tight? Could, as a friend suggested to me, the 50 ft-lb seating of the race have damaged the races? I thought I was following proper procedure?

Any thoughts?

Thanks
Tim
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post #2 of (permalink) Old 05-08-2005, 12:37 AM
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Re: Seating new bearing races

did you use timken bearings or some cheap crap?
also.. those hubs don't really seal all that well.. if you take it off road at all you'll have to replace them regularly
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post #3 of (permalink) Old 05-08-2005, 12:59 AM
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Re: Seating new bearing races

They heat up, they cool down. They move, they wear. They dont last forever, else nobody would stock them.

Now about your tightening the nuts. I tried the method in the book, I didnt like it. For years, Ive tightened until the wheel had a little drag on it and then backed it off until the drag was gone. Basically, no endplay. You can check it by pushing and pulling on the top of the tire. If its loose, the hub will rock and youll hear a little clunk. Tighten it just until it wont rock. At least thats my advice and on this one I know I have some agreement because weve discussed it here before.



Note to MarineOpLaw: I thought of you when I used looser. Did I have the right word with the right number of os. For some reason, Ive had trouble keeping those two words straight for a long time but I told you Ill try to be more careful in the future. and I did.
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post #4 of (permalink) Old 05-08-2005, 01:35 AM
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Re: Seating new bearing races

The new ones went bad?
Hard to tell from your statement.

Seating them by over tighening them to 50 is normal procedure.
All that does is make sure the races are in tight. Sometimes you think they are all the way in when they aren't unless you do that. It won't hurt the bearings at all. To damage them like that you'd have to tighten them far far tighter than 50 lbs. If they weren't properly seated they will cause trouble later down the road.

When replacing a bearing, especially one that's self destructed, make sure you get ALL the old grease out of the hub - a tiny little piece of metal from the old one can rip up the new one fast!
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post #5 of (permalink) Old 05-08-2005, 01:57 AM
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Re: Seating new bearing races

elusive and RRich hit on about the same things...

I would worry more about using a cheap seal than a cheap bearing... suggest Timken for both. The reason that I mention the seal as being more important... what RRich said about just one little chunk of metal (or a few bits of sand) will start the process of destroying the bearing.

I'm not completely sure of the correct term here... but I'm going to use "lip". When you go shopping for inner wheel bearing seals there are single lip and double lip seals... get the double lip ones (like Timken).

Have pushed some mud from time to time. Lol I have to being short in the tire department.

Would also suggest that you check out pnut's post about his wheel bearings and why they had issues.

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post #6 of (permalink) Old 05-08-2005, 10:03 AM
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Re: Seating new bearing races

As usual QUALITY does make a big difference. Usually quality things are only 5-10% higher in price.
ie. A steak dinner at a drive thru or at a real restaraunt.


Is Chinese steel really just silver colored plastic?
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post #7 of (permalink) Old 05-08-2005, 12:03 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Seating new bearing races

The bearing that went bad, and the two seats, were about 2 years old. There was a tiny bit of rust between the inner bearing cup and the spindle, but the bearing itself was clean, other than the galling.

So Taz, you would back off the tightness until you feel some endplay by rocking the wheel, and then tighten enough to remove the felt end play?

I backed it off a 1/4 turn and it felt like there was no drag and the wheel spun freely.

If 50 lbs isn't enough to damage the seats, I must have gotten some foreign material in there to cause the galling / pitting.

I cleaned the hub up real good. Soaked in solvent, wiped clean, then sprayed with brake parts cleaner and blasted out with an air hose. I've never seen them cleaner. So at least this time I'm sure they are uncontaminated.

The other front bearings were redone by me a few months ago. The inner race wasn't real tight, so I used some locktight on it. I can feel some endplay on it again, so I may need to eventually replace that hub, or perhaps its fine and all I need to do is retighten that set of bearings.

As for brand, I used Federal Mogul brand. I believe they are made in the U.S. of A. The other store sells Chicago Rawhide and Chinese makes. I didn't really plan this repair out well enough, and should have picked up all the pieces I needed before I tore it apart. I just wasn't sure what I was going to find. I wasn't certain the bearing was making that strange sound when I first started driving till I tore it apart.

On the seal end of things, I look at my old spindle and wonder if it isn't part of the problem if water gets in. The area where the seal rides looks like anything but new metal. It looks worn and slightly rusted / brown.
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post #8 of (permalink) Old 05-08-2005, 02:25 PM
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Re: Seating new bearing races

[ QUOTE ]
So Taz, you would back off the tightness until you feel some endplay by rocking the wheel, and then tighten enough to remove the felt end play?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yep, thats how I do it, right, wrong or indifferent. The way I learned was to spin the hub and disc or drum with the wheel on it and actually feel the drag. This worked because to replace the bearings you had to remove and reinstall the rotor or drums and the pads/shoes had to be loose to do that.

To check for proper preset later, I just rock the in and out at the top to feel for endplay. If there is any, I tighten just to the point that there is none left. I do this mainly because I am too lazy to take the wheels off and push the pads back. If they were drums, I would probably back off the shoe adjustment and do the spin for drag thing. With drums, if I were right there, Id want to adjust the shoes anyway.



[ QUOTE ]
I didn't really plan this repair out well enough, and should have picked up all the pieces I needed before I tore it apart. I just wasn't sure what I was going to find. I wasn't certain the bearing was making that strange sound when I first started driving till I tore it apart.

[/ QUOTE ]

Plan ahead, with the full floaters, Ive got those same bearing and seals on all four corners. I try to keep four full sets on hand at all times. They dont take up much room and I hate going to the parts store in the middle of a job.
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post #9 of (permalink) Old 05-08-2005, 02:49 PM
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Re: Seating new bearing races

Tapered roller bearings need a little bit of pre-load.
Overtighen to make sure everything's seated.
Then like Taz said, back off till it has a slight bit of play.
Tighten untill the play is gone.
Then give it a little more. Not a bunch, but to where you feel it drag slightly.

ANY looseness - even though it "feels tight" will hammer tapered rollers to death quickly.

Ball bearings are a different story, they can stand a bit of play.

As far as a race not being tight - they don't have to be gorrilla tight, but tight enough so they won't move. You can take a punch and make a bunch of dimples inside the hub, or on the spindle where the race sits. The burrs on the dimples hold it -- if it hasn't already spun and grooved the surface badly. Lots of small dimples are preferred over a few big ones.
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post #10 of (permalink) Old 05-08-2005, 04:31 PM
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Re: Seating new bearing races

[ QUOTE ]
Note to MarineOpLaw: I thought of you when I used looser. Did I have the right word with the right number of os. For some reason, Ive had trouble keeping those two words straight for a long time but I told you Ill try to be more careful in the future. and I did.

[/ QUOTE ]

Correct <font color="green">Grasshopper</font>! Yer larnin'!

'Tis nice to be thought of once in awhile... [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] by whoever it might be! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img]

BTW Taz, appreciate the informative (& non-argumentative/controversial) post. [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img] You workin' on cleaning up your 'black sheep' image? [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/censor.gif[/img]
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