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post #1 of (permalink) Old 01-10-2005, 11:13 PM Thread Starter
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Who needs help with their Weber??

I've had quite a few calls lately from Jeepers that are unable to figure out the jetting for these carbs . If you folks want to start a thread we can answer a lot of those questions here and help those who need it . Also, I modify the vent system at my shop and fix the stalling issues associated with these carbs as well as do rebuilds and other mods . Any questions, fire away...
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post #2 of (permalink) Old 01-11-2005, 04:24 AM
 
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Re: Who needs help with their Weber??

OK

A friend of mine just found a Clifford manifold to put a 44 IDF on his modified 258.


The usual cam change, header, 4.0 head yada yada yada.

I know he'll be coming over to have me work on tuning it but I don't even know what this carb was on and what jetting we should be stating with.

I don't think this jeep will see inclines more than what allowed on paved roads in our area.

If you have a suggestion, it would save me a lot of time.

I've worked on DCOE, DGES, all sorts of conversions on Suzukies, WV bugs Fiats, Mercury Capries, NSU, Pintos and Holley Webers but the IDF will be a first for me. Is it simular to the 3bbl used on a 914-6
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post #3 of (permalink) Old 01-12-2005, 08:38 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Who needs help with their Weber??

He's gonna have a real hard time bolting an IDF on that manifold since it's a spreadbore pattern unless there is an adapter available . Also, that carb is really tall and will probably stick out of the hood unless the stacks are very short . The twin throat IDF's are basically the same setup to the triple throats used on the Porsche's . Once the linkage is zeroed out you set the idle mixes with a sync meter and go from there . Jetting would be reasonably higher than with a stock 258 and a DGV series . Personally, if it were mine I'd be using a DCNF instead . The IDF will provide huge throttle response but may be a bit of a pain to get jetted right in the upper end on that type of manifold...I would like to see pics of the finished setup though.
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post #4 of (permalink) Old 01-12-2005, 09:30 AM
 
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Re: Who needs help with their Weber??

I don't know if it's that manifold. That was one Cliffods showed on their site. Now that I look at it close it doesn't have the Weber bolt pattern.

DCNF?? I han't played with one of those since I messed around with a Fiat 124.

Maybe I could talk him into this set up for his 258:


[img]images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]
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post #5 of (permalink) Old 01-13-2005, 08:09 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Who needs help with their Weber??

At one time there was a multiple carb manifold available to fit the 258, haven't seen one of those in years . I have recently seen a spreadbore to DCNF pattern adapter on Ebay but it went pretty high . Bet someone bought it thinking a DGV would fit [img]images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
I got a chance to work on a Fiat 124 awhile back, rebuilt the carb and of course took it for a test ride. For a cheap sports car from 1976, that thing goes like stink. The motor is the plain old cast iron 1800 and really is lacking compression but it would still bark the tires in 1,2 and 3rd gears no problem. The dumb thing handles like a Porsche but rides better than most luxury cars of today. The Italians sure have it figured out .

I'm finishing the final linkage and some minor parts for a 40DCNF to fit this Suzuki hybrid I built . I'd eventually like to make one for a Jeep as they would benefit from the torque curve of that carb , much like the difference in the standard 32/36DGV's compared to the 38DGAS series . I've been running a 38DGAS for awhile now, it just lacks a bit hence the move to the 40mm . I do have the manifold for the twin sidedraft DCOE setup, but don't want the carbs that low sucking up water .
BTW, don't happen to have any odd parts laying around??
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post #6 of (permalink) Old 01-13-2005, 09:01 PM
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Re: Who needs help with their Weber??

Hey Sarge,
That's a great offer. Someone is always poking around on the webers. My experience has been people using the cheap fuel pressure regulators that aren't worth a flip. I switched mine to a Holley fuel pressure reguator and have been very happy since.
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post #7 of (permalink) Old 01-13-2005, 09:17 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Who needs help with their Weber??

That one thing alone is one of the biggest problems , 3psi or less and no bones about it . Also, there are some tricks to setting up the floats on DGV's to help with high angles. Brass ones can be set level +1/8" up in float height, making sure the internal spring isn't compressed when measuring the float level. The measurement should be done with the float dangling from it's pin vertically to do this properly. Once the height is set, the maximum drop should only be 1/8" of travel within the valve itself , no more . At that travel there is more than enough fuel to feed the engine even at high revs. This keeps the float in a proper arc to control fuel level and stop some of the flooking issues. Have any of the Jeepers tried turning the carb around ? Not sure if you could run a shorter or altered bell crank to do this , but it helps with hill climbing . It's not so bad if the carb stumbles downhill , uphill that just plain sucks . I do vent mods here if anyone is interested, this keeps any spilled fuel in the throat where it can be used instead of filling up the air jet well and fouling the main circuits ....
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post #8 of (permalink) Old 01-14-2005, 04:43 AM
 
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Re: Who needs help with their Weber??

I remember Chysler mounting their Holley/Webers (I forget the model right now, It was many years ago.) sidways from the way Weber designed the cars. Ran great in a straight line but realy fell on it face in a left hand turn. (Well maybe the way I turned left). I fixed the problem with one of those metal slide tops you use to get with those glass fuses. It acted like a slosh baffle to keep the fuel from draing away from the main jets in the bottom of the bowlfor a little bit.

When I had my Suzuki Samuri I converted it over to a Weber with headers and cam stuff and I remember the Weber was the almost same I use to use on my Horizon. So the same tricked work on the Sammie with the baffle. Another trick I did with the Samuri Weber was a mixture mixture control. The original Suzuki carb had a single wire mixture control. Thinking that this was some type of PWM signal to open and close a valve inside the carb I recalled the Omno/Horisons had a simular control. I dug out one of my old carbs and sure enough there was the whole setup. I remember the Weber even had the well for the control to fit in. I think what I did was just swapped tops off the old Holley/Weber onto the new Weber and connected the original mixture control Weber.

I ran down to get my Suzuki EPA tesed on the dyno and it was the lowest ever recorded for a Suzuki. He actually ran it two more times on different rollers just to be sure his equiptment wasn't faulty. I knew I was close because I spent a long time plying with the emultion tubes and air jets to get a good average on the A/F ratio. Didn't have to mess with the main jets much though. I had a good assortment of emultion tubes with various hole configuration and thickness that made the biggest impact. Many people over look the emultion tubes and their impact on drivability particually at part throttle. I had an old 4 channel data logger hooked up to the O2 sensor and tach signal to watch my results of each change.

I use to consistantly fail the Emmision test with the old carb and had to take to designated repair shops to get it to pass wich eventually meant they ran it without an air cleaner when they tested. In Ohio, you spend $300.00 on any attempt to repair and you pass. (Pay $300.00 and pass go.) So with my Weber, Headers and Crane cam I was able to beat the factory setup and have enough power for a wompen stompen 29" tall tires. [img]images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

My wife put my huge box of Weber carbs on a table during a garage sale and she got $10.00 for it. [img]images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img] All I have left is a 45 DCOE left over from a pair we had installed on a Gordini motor we had in a Lotus Europa and a Solex off the same motor.

I alwaysed used a good fuel pressure regulator. Never thought about not using one. Maybe because I always use electric fuel pumps and always thought they had to much pressure anyway.
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post #9 of (permalink) Old 01-14-2005, 08:37 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Who needs help with their Weber??

You aren't the first guy to lose out on parts from a wife. I bought a whole box of odd parts off Ebay that way, for $5. I'd estimate the box was worth over $300 easily as most of the stuff was brand new . Emulsion tubes can really make a huge difference, problem is I never see the engines I tune as my customers live far away . The biggest problem with the Samurai application is the transitions fall on the outside of the plenum, the DCNF should cure that and provide enough air to keep up with this modified mill I built. Most have to run oversized idle jets to compensate, hence the reason most fail e-tests. I wish they would settle the strike issue in Spain, or turn over production completely back to Italy again so we can get some parts here . Things are going up due to the strike, new carbs only trickle in slowly but the demand is still there ...
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post #10 of (permalink) Old 01-22-2005, 08:59 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Who needs help with their Weber??

BTW, anyone have any old DCNF series laying around? Got a couple of 40DCNF12's missing some parts and would like to make them whole again . These are the old-school Italians, don't want the "inferior" new style parts in them....
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