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post #1 of (permalink) Old 06-06-2004, 11:20 AM Thread Starter
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D-Day OT

Under the heading of things I've never known, what does the "D" in D-Day stand for?

And because Dirt Dog brought it up, what is the significance of the "21" gun salute? Why 21? Seems like I used to know this one but have forgotten.
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post #2 of (permalink) Old 06-06-2004, 11:25 AM
 
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Re: D-Day OT

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
The short answer: nothing.

In military terms, D-Day and H-Hour are sometimes used for the day and hour on which a combat attack or operation is to be initiated. They are used when the day and hour have not yet been determined, or when secrecy is important.

When used in combination with plus or minus signs, these terms indicate the length of time preceding or following a specific action. Thus, H-3 means 3 hours before H-Hour, and D+3 means 3 days after D-Day. H+75 minutes means H-Hour plus 1 hour and 15 minutes.

D-Day for the invasion of Normandy was set for June 6, 1944, and that date has been popularly referred to by the short title "D-Day."



[/ QUOTE ]

http://www.worldwar2history.info/D-Day/D-in-D-Day.html
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post #3 of (permalink) Old 06-06-2004, 11:43 AM
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Re: D-Day OT

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
And because Dirt Dog brought it up, what is the significance of the "21" gun salute? Why 21? Seems like I used to know this one but have forgotten.


[/ QUOTE ]1. 21 is symbolic of 1776,
2. The year the US declared Independence.
3. 1+7+7+6 = 21,
4. Hence a 21 gun salute,
5. Or gun's fired 21 times,
6. Such as 7 riflemen firing 3 volleys,
7. Or 3 rifelmen firing 7 volleys,
8. Each adding up to the total of 21
9. I thought I knew a lot about D-Day,
10. But with the news coverage this week,
11. I learned even more....
12. During the week before D-Day,
13. The US 8th Air Force softened up Axis forces,
14. And in doing so killed 19,000 French Civilians.
15. Wow...
16. That fact stunned me.
17. Imagine that in Iraq today?
18. My esteem for the French has grown this week.
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post #4 of (permalink) Old 06-06-2004, 02:04 PM
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Re: D-Day OT

Hi all,

I've just returned from the most memorable weekend of my life, the 60th anniversary D-Day celebrations in Normandy. Unfortunately I had to return early due to work commitments.

This was truly an awesome weekend and to experience all this for real is just made me speechless. I've been to Omaha, Juno and Gold beach and went to the parades in Arromanche. Being Dutch but born after the war the history of the Second World War was told to me time and time again at school, by my parents and grand parents but nothing prepares you for actually speaking to several of the veterans that were around. These men are heros in my eyes but none of them see themselves as one. Each and everyone of them I spoke to didn't want to be called a hero nor did they think of themselves like that. They all said that it was just their duty and nothing more.

I have heard first hand accounts of these men about what it was like to be in the first wave on June 6th 1944. Luckily (according to most of the veterans I spoke to) nothing could ever have prepared them for what was waiting for them, not even the 18 months training.

One of the guys said that as soon as he hit the beach in the first wave in waist deep water countless bodies were already floating in the water and the beach had turned red. There was no time to think about others however as all he could think about was to stay alive himself.

At the re-enactment of the landings I spoke to a veteran who played the bagpipes (like in the movie "The longest day") and he told me that it must have scared the living daylights out of those Germans hearing these bagpipes come ashore.

Today I spoke to a wheelchair bound veteran who clearly had a bit of a hard time getting around so I offered my services to push him all over the place. The advantage was that I got a first class view of most of the ceremonies today and I felt truly honoured to be able to help somebody that sacrificed everything for our freedom!!

This guy said to me; To most people the beach means buckets and spades. To me it has a complete different meaning.

As was said; This is the last celebration of D-Day and even if there was another celebration in another 10 years time, most of the old veterans won't be with us anymore as on average the are now 80 years old or more.

Just glad that I had a chance to hear many of the stories first hand, some of which would make any grown man weep.

SO THANKS TO ALL THE POEPLE WHO MADE A FREE EUROPE HAPPEN. WITHOUT THEM MANY PEOPLE WOULDN'T BE LIVING THE LIVES WE ARE NOW ACCUSTOMED TO.

God bless all of them!!
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post #5 of (permalink) Old 06-06-2004, 02:08 PM
 
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Re: D-Day OT

Not to contest you LEVE..

But I'm SURE the 21 gun salute originated before the 1700's.

I assume that 1776 may be the reason the United States bought into the world agreement that 21 guns would be sufficient.. but long before the 1700's Britians kings would have a 21 gun salute.

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
The tradition of rendering a salute by cannon originated in the 14th century as firearms and cannons came into use. Since these early devices contained only one projectile, discharging them once rendered them ineffective. Originally warships fired seven-gun salutes--the number seven probably selected because of its astrological and Biblical significance. Seven planets had been identified and the phases of the moon changed every seven days. The Bible states that God rested on the seventh day after Creation, that every seventh year was sabbatical and that the seven times seventh year ushered in the Jubilee year.

Land batteries, having a greater supply of gunpowder, were able to fire three guns for every shot fired afloat, hence the salute by shore batteries was 21 guns. The multiple of three probably was chosen because of the mystical significance of the number three in many ancient civilizations. Early gunpowder, composed mainly of sodium nitrate, spoiled easily at sea, but could be kept cooler and drier in land magazines. When potassium nitrate improved the quality of gunpowder, ships at sea adopted the salute of 21 guns.

[/ QUOTE ]

I remember watching a television program just a few days ago that had a mention of the salute.. and there was even a part in it about how some kings wanted to be "better" then others, so would out do the opponents 21 guns with 23 or more.

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
The 21-gun salute became the highest honor a nation rendered. Varying customs among the maritime powers led to confusion in saluting and return of salutes. Great Britain, the world's preeminent seapower in the 18th and 19th centuries, compelled weaker nations to salute first, and for a time monarchies received more guns than did republics. Eventually, by agreement, the international salute was established at 21 guns, although the United States did not agree on this procedure until August 1875.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm no expert.. and I bet theres more reasons for the 21 gun salute being 21 guns then there are speculations about how the name "Jeep" came into existance.. but I'd say it stems back further then the late 1700's.
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post #6 of (permalink) Old 06-06-2004, 02:25 PM Thread Starter
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Re: D-Day OT

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
1. 21 is symbolic of 1776,
2. The year the US declared Independence.
3. 1+7+7+6 = 21,
4. Hence a 21 gun salute,

[/ QUOTE ]
After I posted I remembered what I'd heard that it was equivalent to a missing man flying formation. 22 men in a squad so the 21 shots represented the other 21 men. Didn't make a lot of sense, guess that's why I forgot it.



[/ QUOTE ]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
In military terms, D-Day and H-Hour are sometimes used for the day and hour on which a combat attack or operation is to be initiated.

[/ QUOTE ]
That's a disappointment if that's all there is to it. I've heard the D-Day and H-Hour terms but thought they came into use in reference to this day 60 years ago.
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post #7 of (permalink) Old 06-06-2004, 02:41 PM
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Re: D-Day OT

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
Not to contest you LEVE..

But I'm SURE the 21 gun salute originated before the 1700's.

[/ QUOTE ]1. Heck.. why not?
2. I'm wrong more'n I'm right.
3. Darn it...my Boy Scout training let me down...
4. That's where I learned that myth.
5. But then I could have learned it wrong...
6. 'Cuz I was dumber than a small box of rocks...
7. Even then.
8. Now a little more ignorance has been removed,
9. And I'm a little more unhappy because of it.
10. On the bright side of things...
11. Rene, thank you for the first hand report!
12. I am jealous..
13. Oh, one other little D-day tidbit...
14. This was the first year Germans,
15. Were invited to the commemoration.
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post #8 of (permalink) Old 06-06-2004, 03:15 PM
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Re: D-Day OT

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
3. Heck... my Boy Scout training let me down...

[/ QUOTE ]

The older I get the more I find that my Boy Scout training, Teachers (school systems and curriculum actually), and the News let me down...I mentioned 3 books in another post recently...Of the three, "Lies My Teacher Told Me..." by James Loewen was the most depressing...So much knowledge...built on mis-information, revisionist history and out right lies...

LEVE your "knowledge" of the 21 gun salute is an excellent example of how we are told things to suit the way the "teacher" wants us to know them. Unfortunately this "history" builds on itself (just like lies do) until it's hard to know what the real truth is.
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post #9 of (permalink) Old 06-06-2004, 08:27 PM
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Re: D-Day OT

[img]images/graemlins/goodpost.gif[/img] lomod!

I'm going to go find that book and find out how much I was 'mistaught' and therefore don't know... [img]images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img] [img]images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

[img]images/graemlins/deal.gif[/img] [img]images/graemlins/crybaby.gif[/img]
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post #10 of (permalink) Old 06-07-2004, 12:56 AM
 
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Re: D-Day OT

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
13. Oh, one other little D-day tidbit...
14. This was the first year Germans,
15. Were invited to the commemoration.

[/ QUOTE ]

In my opinion.. something finally done right.
You see movies, hear accounts, and read books where the "bad guys" are the Germans.

Very few people I know realise that the German soldiers.. airmen.. boys, young men, and women who died during the war were just that. The same as the old guy down the street who sits on his rocking chair and stares out into the distance.. there are german, japaneese, and italian men who do the same. There were axis young men who died the same.. shot to the gut.. hit by a stray round..

Around here I am sorely dissapoined every year when they emphisise the Canadian, American, and British involvement in the first and second world war.. but never mention anyone else.. it's always.. "And now we will lead you in a prayer for the sailors soldiers and airmen of the allied forces"

This year I'm going to have a word with them.



What I find more amazing then even this towns ignorance as to the suffering and loss on BOTH sides.. is how ON the FIELD.. at the FRONT.. Prisoners.. and wounded have no country.

Especially wounded.. how is it that medics and surgeons see no race, colour, or alleigiance.. POWs are given cigarettes.. and chcolate.. but now.. years after when the tensions have died and our counteries live in harmony.. GERMANS are still disciminated against on rememberance day?
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