O/T Renters Constitutional Rights Update - Off-Road Forums & Discussion Groups
Jeep-Short Wheelbase All discussion of short wheelbase Jeeps: CJ, TJ, YJ and JK

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of (permalink) Old 07-31-2003, 09:19 PM Thread Starter
Official Curmudgeon
 
CJ7Taz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Kansas
Posts: 4,705
Thanks: 2
Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts
 
O/T Renters Constitutional Rights Update

I'm sure some of you remember this thread. The Unified Government of Kansas City, KS/Wyandotte County sent a letter to my landlady which also happens to be my mother stating that they intended to inspect my rental townhouse unit. I've done a lot of reading since then and determined that they probably needed a warrant. I called Code Enforcement and they insisted that they did not.

They came out at the appointed time last Tuesday. I met the inspector at the door holding a video recorder. The inspector asked if there was a problem with him doing the inspection. I told him that I was requesting a warrant. He said that he didn't need a warrant, only my permission. I replied by telling him that he did not have my permission and in lieu of that would need an Administrative Warrant. He produced a 2-way radio from his belt and walked away from the door to have his conversation.

He returned to place a sticker on the door indicating that the unit was substandard. My phone rang and it was my mother/landlady. They had called her home and told her that I had refused the inspection and that they were going to revoke her rental license. They told her that they had absolute right to make the inspection without a warrant, that it had been through the courts including the Supreme Court, their rights were upheld and I was in violation of the law. They also insisted that she set up a new inspection date and told her that if I refuse at that time they would revoke her license and I would have to be evicted.

Well, all this had my mother pretty shook up, I reasoned with her some over the phone and then went to her house. I showed her some case decisions that I had found on the internet, a letter written by Carla Stovall (prior Attorney General for Kansas) and a teaching document for Kansas inspectors about search and seizure as it applies to code enforcement. She repeated that the woman who had called from code enforcement had insisted that their rights to make the inspection had been upheld even in Supreme Court. I told her that I was sure that the issue had not been to Federal Supreme Court, so doubting that they had any such documents, I asked my mother to call back to code enforcement and as them to send copies or at least give the case numbers so I could look them up. When she called, they recanted their previous statement and said that they used to have them on file but no longer have them. They gave her the phone number for the legal department and the name of a person who could provide the documentation.

At this point I took over and called the named person in their legal department asking about these documents, initially giving him only the information that code enforcement had attempted a warrantless rental property inspection. He seemed a bit surprised and asked a number of questions about the incident. He had an inspector dispatched to remove the substandard housing sticker and when I talked to him this morning, they were pursuing an administrative warrant to return for an inspection on Aug 8.

From everything that I have read it appears that the same constitutional rights that apply in criminal law also apply to inspections as I had expected. That is ANY inspection, fire, health etc. in an non-emergency situation. The test for residence is not nearly as strict as I would have thought. I expected Fourth Amendment rights to apply to any residence owned or rented including motel/hotel rooms but it further applies to a guest in a home. In one particular case that I read, a man had been the get-away driver in a service station robbery. He was reported to have run into a duplex. The police established that he didn't reside there and went in to make the arrest without a warrant. In the course of the arrest, there were some statements made by the suspect that were tossed out because the arrest was illegal. It turned out that the suspect had been a guest and spent the previous night in the duplex. That was enough to qualify for his expectation of privacy.

When the biggest enemy of government is an informed public, there is a serious problem.
CJ7Taz is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of (permalink) Old 07-31-2003, 09:28 PM
Keyboard Implanted
 
Aaron871's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Homeless in the Hammers... / Mexico
Posts: 3,160
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
 
Re: O/T Renters Constitutional Rights Update

What was the purpose of the inspection? Is it a section 8? I don't understand why the Unified Government of Kansas City would be so interested in an independantly owned and leased property. What are they inspecting (looking for)?
Aaron871 is offline  
post #3 of (permalink) Old 07-31-2003, 09:32 PM
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,705
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
 
Re: O/T Renters Constitutional Rights Update

Taz, not to bust your you know whats, but why refuse the inspection without a warrant? They'll just come back with a warrant and you'll have the place inspected. When they do, they will be pretty pissed that they had to go through the process and will start looking for things to make your (and your mom's) life miserable.

Am I missing something???
AllLockedUp is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of (permalink) Old 07-31-2003, 09:36 PM
Keyboard Implanted
 
Aaron871's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Homeless in the Hammers... / Mexico
Posts: 3,160
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
 
Re: O/T Renters Constitutional Rights Update

Nate, how would you feel if a stranger wanted to trapse through your home? Looking in your bedrooms, bathrooms, closets, and such...... To do what....see what kind of toothpaste you use?
Aaron871 is offline  
post #5 of (permalink) Old 07-31-2003, 09:38 PM
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 524
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
 
Re: O/T Renters Constitutional Rights Update

hey, youre my kind of people! Not to sound like some crazy anti govt nut, but you have to keep them in check and the ONLY way to attempt that is to be informed!
irjpr is offline  
post #6 of (permalink) Old 07-31-2003, 10:15 PM
Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Rome, Ga.
Posts: 225
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
 
Re: O/T Renters Constitutional Rights Update

Kudos to you! If more people were informed and stood for their rights, maybe we wouldn't be losing them.
Horse is offline  
post #7 of (permalink) Old 07-31-2003, 10:18 PM Thread Starter
Official Curmudgeon
 
CJ7Taz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Kansas
Posts: 4,705
Thanks: 2
Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts
 
Re: O/T Renters Constitutional Rights Update

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
What was the purpose of the inspection? Is it a section 8? I don't understand why the Unified Government of Kansas City would be so interested in an independantly owned and leased property. What are they inspecting (looking for)?

[/ QUOTE ]

Quoting from the letter requiring an inspection, "One of the goals of the Commission is that 'Every citizen should expect a healthy, safe, and enriched quality of life' in Kansas City, Kansas. To help ensure and further that goal, a Rental Licensing/inspection Program was established." What a crock!!

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
Taz, not to bust your you know whats, but why refuse the inspection without a warrant? They'll just come back with a warrant and you'll have the place inspected. When they do, they will be pretty pissed that they had to go through the process and will start looking for things to make your (and your mom's) life miserable.

Am I missing something???

[/ QUOTE ]

When I phoned Code Enforcement, they stated that "Renters do not have any rights." I figured they needed edjumacated. Somebody had to stand up. The next logical move would be to require inspections of any home where children reside because as minors, they cannot exert their own rights. Next would be inspection of the homes of the aged for their own protection because of loss of their mental faculties at their age. Next would be inspection of any homes of married or cohabiting couples on the basis that there are a number of battered wives that can't speak up for fear of reprisal from their violent mate. Next it'll be your house if it hasn't already fallen into one of the former categories.

I don't know that they will get the warrant, but if they do, I'll pursue the legality of their "Reasonable Cause." My qualifications are much better for determining a problem than that of an inspector, having been a journeyman electrician (Rock Island RR, USAF, and 2 GM auto plants), I have been a maintenance supervisor and thus have knowledge of pluming, structure, etc. I have an Electrical Engineering degree from KU, worked may places as an EE either as an employee or as a contract engineer and worked several years as a mechanical engineer.

The townhouse I live in is not old enough to expect many problems and even though they are inspecting my rented unit "for my quality of life", they are not incepting the resident owned units on either side of me which have utilities in common walls and if insect or mold infested would affect my quality of life. There is not much danger of mice or rats with all of the feral cats that have taken over the wooded area in front of my unit and the city won't deal with. Maybe with their stated "cause" I can get them to deal with them now. I'll have to remember to point that out to the inspector.

If each one of us were to fight one "legal" infringement on our rights, we'd have our Constitution back in no time.
CJ7Taz is offline  
post #8 of (permalink) Old 07-31-2003, 10:50 PM
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Posts: 873
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
 
Re: O/T Renters Constitutional Rights Update

This is another fine example of how the government is trying to hold our hands and make decisions for us.
They should leave that up to you. If the place is not up to your living standards then you can move.
I am really tired of our government lowereing the common denominator to make life easier for all of the stupid people. Maybe if the government didn't hold the stupid people's hands and make decisions for them, there would be less stupid people.
More people need to watch over the government and it's agencies to make sure at the very least that they are following the rules and regulations that they created. And, more importantly, are not infringing upon the constitutional rights that this great country is founded on.
We are slowly loosing these rights because people are becoming to damned stupid to handle the rights and freedoms we have.
Everytime a politician cuts education, he loses my vote.
Education is the foundation of society, and without a strong educational system, everything else fails.
Dan 84 CJ-7 is offline  
post #9 of (permalink) Old 07-31-2003, 10:55 PM
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
knifeboy2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Macomb, IL
Posts: 2,571
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
 
Re: O/T Renters Constitutional Rights Update

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
If each one of us were to fight one "legal" infringement on our rights, we'd have our Constitution back in no time.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't believe we ever lost our Constitution. In my 21 years on Earth and spending 99% of that time in the US I've never felt like my rights had been lost or taken. I can wake up in the morning when I want....eat the most unhealthy breakfast of Krispy Kremes....work at a job I enjoy.....and come home to a broken Jeep that I can work on. There are plenty of places in this world where thats just not possible.

Although I do not believe they have the right to search your rental property under any non-emergency situations, I disagree with your statement on the Constitution.
knifeboy2 is offline  
post #10 of (permalink) Old 07-31-2003, 11:58 PM Thread Starter
Official Curmudgeon
 
CJ7Taz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Kansas
Posts: 4,705
Thanks: 2
Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts
 
Re: O/T Renters Constitutional Rights Update

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
I don't believe we ever lost our Constitution. In my 21 years on Earth and spending 99% of that time in the US I've never felt like my rights had been lost or taken.

[/ QUOTE ]
You're just not old enough. About the time you were born, business owners started loosing their rights to run their business as they pleased. The government started stepping in to imposing smoking and handicapped regulations among other things. In the 18 years between the time I got my drivers license and you were born, we lost the right to assembly without a permit, auto inspection, pollution laws, and CAFÉ standards began. We lost forests to the spotted owl. We lost the right to incinerate trash. The Federal government mandated a 55 mph national speed limit and raised the national drinking age to 21 (but for some reason exempted military installations). Hundreds, maybe thousands, of pesticides were banned, so was saccharine sweetener for what turned out to be no reason. You weren't even alive for the Great Cranberry ban (1958 I think, or the Warren Commission secret report sections (sealed from the public for 75 years, got another 35 years to go). I could go on until I actually got carpal tunnel.

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
I can wake up in the morning when I want....eat the most unhealthy breakfast of Krispy Kremes....

[/ QUOTE ]
Enjoy it while you can, obesity and high cholesterol are about to become crimes. The do-gooders and insurance companies are already pushing for you to have a better diet. Sin taxes have already been proposed on unhealthy foods. Pay better attention, become informed and act or loose your rights to those Krispy Kremes! I'd also enjoy that sleep time if I was you before the Storm Troopers knock on your door every morning to get you up for the Federal Calisthenics Program. And at your age, don't expect the right to reap any fruits from that Social Security you're paying.
CJ7Taz is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Off-Road Forums & Discussion Groups forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome