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post #1 of (permalink) Old 06-18-2003, 11:18 PM Thread Starter
 
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Turned down at Machine shop....

Now that the Tranny is getting rebuilt in the jeep i thought i would be a good time to put the 4.0 head on. After much research i have a pretty good handle on the situation. I loaded up the head and went to the only place in a 40 mile radius that will weld cast iorn. I asked him if they could weld the 12 water jackets shut and he said they could not do it. Then i asked about the freeze plugs, claimed there was not enough room. Now, this is a well respected guy in our comunity and such. I am stumped at why he will not do this for me. I do plan on going farther out of town, but this is beggining to be a hassle.

Is there any way i can check for the water jacket exposure with out ripping the old head off and setting the 4.0 on there? Any mesurments i need to take. Also, anywhere in NE Kansas that will weld my jackets shut? Thanks
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post #2 of (permalink) Old 06-18-2003, 11:45 PM
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Re: Turned down at Machine shop....

1. Realize that what you're asking is not an easy task.
2. He's worried about you coming back,
3. If the weld lets go (and it may),
4. And blamin' him for shoddy workmanship,
5. When it may not be his fault.
6. Talk it over with him...
7. Get his advice, it never hurts,
8. Listening to a Pro my just provide an answer.
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post #3 of (permalink) Old 06-19-2003, 12:57 AM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Turned down at Machine shop....

Yes, we disscused this. He does not want to be held responsible for a failure. I understand that.

The main problem is, he had no suggestions and told me to take it to another place. Which might be smart on his part. My next place to go is a machine shop that does plenty with engines, although it is a drive.

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post #4 of (permalink) Old 06-19-2003, 02:58 AM
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Re: Turned down at Machine shop....

I've read posts where the jackets were stuffed with water soluble packing peanuts and then filled with JB weld with much success. If your intent on welding the jackets, you might check marine shops. The older outboards were cast blocks, and were famous for cracking and having to be rewelded. A friend of mine had a block welded at Wakonda's near Glennville KS I think.

Just found this article back, has welding, freeze plug, and epoxy (JB Weld) methods explained in brief.

http://www.monsterslayer.com/jeep/40Head/40Head.htm
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post #5 of (permalink) Old 06-19-2003, 05:50 AM
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Re: Turned down at Machine shop....

its also true that many machinists are not expert welders. They are very good at removing metal, not so good at putting it back.
Also remember that anytime a shop has to set up for a job like yours, they are virtually gauranteed to lose money. Most machine shops charge around $80/hour. now you'll get charged for the entire time it takes from set-up to finish, but the shop would make a lot more money of the set up could be done one time to do many parts.
I have made a few sets of underdrive aluminum pulleys for friends and theres no way I could ever make ANY money doing it.
I'd use jb weld
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post #6 of (permalink) Old 06-19-2003, 10:24 AM
 
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Re: Turned down at Machine shop....

How about filling them with epoxy?
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post #7 of (permalink) Old 06-19-2003, 10:54 AM
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Re: Turned down at Machine shop....

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
How about filling them with epoxy?

[/ QUOTE ]1. Epoxy has the same problem as welding the jackets shut.
2. There's a awful lot of heat expansion and contraction.
3. The expansion and contraction causes two problems.
4. If the epoxy isn't plastic enough it can be shattered,
5. Under heat and contraction,
6. I can also leak and just plain fall out when expansion occurs.
7. That's one reason lots of people us JB-Weld,
8. It more closely mimics the qualities of Cast iron,
9. When heated and contracted.
10. I've yet to find a perfect answer to this problem....
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post #8 of (permalink) Old 06-19-2003, 11:16 AM
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Re: Turned down at Machine shop....

hhhmmmm, this is the first time I've heard this... Why would you weld the water jackets shut? just curious....
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post #9 of (permalink) Old 06-19-2003, 11:23 AM
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Re: Turned down at Machine shop....

I also will be doing the 4.0 head conversion soon. I spoke with some cast iron experts at the local Navy shipyard and they cautioned about warpage welding up that long I6 head.
My "donor" head came from a '92 Cherokee. While some say just use 4.0 head gasket w/o plugging, I set mine on my block and there wasnt enough meat on the block to cover and seal the extra water jacket holes.
Water ports on my 4.0 [img]images/graemlins/givemebeer.gif[/img]head are also too close to the cylinder to drill and use freeze plugs w/o interfereing with seal around cyl.
I did some research on high temp. epoxies and there are many out there whose operating temps go well into the 1000's. Seems to me that the key here is to insure that the coefficient of expansion for epoxy product is approximatly the same as the cast iron block so it expands and contracts at the same rate as the engine block.It's difficult to get this info on some of the avail. products
At this point I'm leaning twards the epoxy route. Please keep me posted on where you end up.
post #10 of (permalink) Old 06-19-2003, 11:29 AM
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Re: Turned down at Machine shop....

I used the 4.2 head gasket, never touched the water ports, and have not had a leak. Just a little FYI. This was 5 years ago. So, you should be able to not do anything with the water ports.
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