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post #1 of (permalink) Old 06-16-2003, 02:13 PM Thread Starter
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Jeep\'s \"New Direction\"

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
"We wouldn't make a CR-V, a Ford Escape or a RAV4 for the Jeep brand, ...Jeep is the real thing. We will set a floor,... "If we can do it on a car-based vehicle, I wouldn't rule it out. But there are minimum standards for Jeep so that Jeep is always Jeep."

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post #2 of (permalink) Old 06-16-2003, 02:17 PM
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Re: Jeep\'s \"New Direction\"

I might be reading too much into this, but it sounds to me like if you're wanting a Jeep, better be getting one soon. I can see independent front suspension (and maybe rear, too) and all Jeeps becoming Liberties. Hope I'm overreacting.
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post #3 of (permalink) Old 06-16-2003, 02:35 PM
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Re: Jeep\'s \"New Direction\"

It seems to me that if the development team for Jeep understands Jeep - they need to ensure that management does to. I would recomend that they take their bosses off roading. Many years ago I read about the head of Ford sending his folks to racing school - so they would understand what performance automobiles meant. It seems that led to the energization of the SVO group.
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post #4 of (permalink) Old 06-17-2003, 01:18 AM
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Re: Jeep\'s \"New Direction\"


[img]images/graemlins/AR15firing.gif[/img] RAV4
[img]images/graemlins/AR15firing.gif[/img] CRV
post #5 of (permalink) Old 06-17-2003, 02:12 AM
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Re: Jeep\'s \"New Direction\"

The biggest danger to jeeps no longer being jeeps is NOT the DC design crew (or even their marketing department!). It is the United States Government. Anyone look at a new Expedition or Explorer and compare it to one from just 2 years ago? The biggest problem facing us dyed in the wool 4x4 fanatics is CAFE fuel effeciency standards and all the bleeding hearts that don't want us driving trucks and SUVs because they are "dangerous" to other vehicles in a collision!!!!!! Okay, fuel efficency: if we CAN get better economy without sacrificing performance and still allowing a shadetree mechanic to work on it, I'm all for it. (emmisions falls into the same area for me, but face it, todays engines are pretty much cleaner than one of the early 80s and produces more power...they are just getting harder to work on) As far as legislating bumper heights and such: If you are afraid of other vehichles on the road, suck it up and buy a bigger rig for yourself, otherwise quit whining! As soon as I get rid of our '97 Plymouth lemon...I mean Breeze...all of our vehicles will be 4x4s...a '95 Ranger, a '74 CJ5, a '85 CJ7, and our most recent aquisition, a '95 Fullsize Bronco. We just got the Bronco to replace the Breeze...We could have easily afforded a new Expedition or Explorer, but chose the older Bronco because it is still fairly close to a Real 4x4 (if it only had a straight axle on the front!) and I can work on it without a college degree and $100,000 in tools.

Okay, I'll end the rant....the conservative in me coming out again....with this. The biggest danger to the Jeep as we know it as a viable commercial product is fuel efficency and legistlation regarding the "saftey" of new vehicles.
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post #6 of (permalink) Old 06-17-2003, 09:45 AM
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Re: Jeep\'s \"New Direction\"

I may be misreading the artical, but it sounds as if they want to standardize the production lines and use more of the same parts and designs with a diffrent body slaped on top

which actually would save zillions of dollars for the company

I doubt they would put a rubicon body on a caravan frame though?

frankly, fuel economy could be doubled with some inginuity and positive gearing there's just no money in fuel savings


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post #7 of (permalink) Old 06-17-2003, 10:10 AM
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Re: Jeep\'s \"New Direction\"

Last fall a bunch of Chrysler engineers were here at MTU for our "career day" aka job fair day. They stayed for a few days as they brought a bunch of trailered Rubicons. One of the engineers was an MTU Fourwheeler alumni. Needless to say the Rubicons were loaded with people and the Fourwheelers took them out in the woods to see what they could do. Most of the engineers, some of the ones that designed the Rubicon, had never been offroad in their life. Even though it was cold and rainy they had a blast. The severely limiting factor of the Rubicon was the tire choice. I vividly remember a tire on the back of one of them with a 7/8" stick poking out of it.

However, they said getting the Rubicon where it stood was a chore because of management. One even said it is amazing they ever made it to production because the higher-up hoity-toity types wanted a luxury liner.

Chrysler is changing and I wouldn't be surprised if Jeep gets the squeeze. As far as I'm concerned Chrysler became a sell-out when they sold themselves to Daimler. There was no merger. It was Chrysler giving up the ghost. Ford and GM aren't competing with Chrysler anymore, they're competing with Germans.
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post #8 of (permalink) Old 06-17-2003, 10:42 AM
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Re: Jeep\'s \"New Direction\"

I read the article, and I was worried at first. It does sound on the surface that this could be very bad. There are some lines in there like " Cutting Costs" and "Streamlining" and "Una-body". But, taking a minute to look at it, I get a little more optimistic.

D/C is itself, just another car manufac. They need to make $, so if the jeep line isn't pulling it's weight, they will need to figure out how to make it do that. So, you might see either an addition to the line ie (Wrangler, Lib, Gran Cher + something new) or they might monkey with the Lib a little more.

The wrangler seems to be to much of a staple for them. I really don't see it changing in the future. Maybe I am just being to optimistic, but this might actualy be a good thing. Who knows, if they add another a more car-like vechile to the line, maybe they'll see enough profit to add something cool to the wrangler line. Who knows.

Either way, I understand the concern, but am holding out reservation for the moment.

/end my $.02
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post #9 of (permalink) Old 06-17-2003, 11:14 AM
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Re: Jeep\'s \"New Direction\"

There are some things you don't [bleep] with. The young whipper-snappers with their fancy degrees and their complete lack of common sense tend to [bleep] things up. They don't look at the big picture.

A prime example is GM killing the f-body. Sure, they didn't sell a lot. The main reason is that they were targeted at kids when kids couldn't afford them. The reason they cost so much is that the Canadians couldn't build them cheap enough. It was costing more to build them in Canada than it would in the United States.

GM got buckets of backlash for this and now they're doing a bandaid fix by bringing a bastardized Monaro to the US and rebadge it as a goat. This not only makes GM look stupid but it doesn't do the GTO any justice. Rumor is that it's going to have the same power characteristics of a Monaro and only have around 300hp out of the LS1... which GM easily got 330 out of in a f-body.

Take a look at the SSR. It's still not being built in large numbers (many of them going to the crusher since they aren't worthy of selling) because of the "engineering firm" GM contracted to do it. Changeover isn't for another two weeks and they stopped production because of them until after changeover. Sure, it's pretty cool with an all aluminum engine making 300 ponies... but it's in a two-ton turd and it's a chore to even powerbrake it. And it costs in excess of $40,000.

It's no wonder people are buying asian imports these days. GM, Ford, and Chrysler can't make anything sporty or easy to work on for under $30,000. It's no wonder why when people want something fun to drive they're buying Lancer Evolutions instead of 2003 Cobras.

Take Chrysler and their now $80,000 Viper. You'd have to be a freaking 'tard to buy a new Viper. You can get a Z06 Corvette for $20,000 less and put the money back into the Vette and smoke a Viper.

GM is verrrrrrryyy slow to change. Hopefully GM, Ford, and Chrysler catch on. And I'm not talking about gay things like the Slow Vehicle Team (SVT) at Ford or the Slightly Higher Output (SHO) Taurus. I'm talking about some real muscle and some real 4x4s.
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post #10 of (permalink) Old 06-17-2003, 11:35 AM
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Re: Jeep\'s \"New Direction\"

meh, im kinda mad but i already got my cj and theres more used ones out there for me and you.

id like to see some fresh new engineering. different doesnt always mean worse. ppl are realizing and pushing tha capabilities of IFS and IRS (oh no he didnt![img]images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img]) for example rockcrawlers. one of the rags had some ind susp buggy with sick travel in it. new stuff's not all bad. and we all gotta make a buck, even Daimler. (the chrysler's silent when you say it in german [img]images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] ) so lets see where they take this. kick me if ya want, but i dont much care for TJ's theres plenty of folks who do, and i dont grudge them at all. everyone's different. if everyone thought like me, body shops would go out of business and spray paint sales would skyrocket. but everyone doesnt. and i like it that way. girlfriend does too [img]images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

my bottom line: lets not be so quick to judge.
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