Looking at getting a roll cage bought or put in the CJ, I'm just looking at adding to the existing factory bar. My uncle is great at welding and pipe welding so should be a problem. My questions are these....

What pipe size? 1.5" X .145????

Is bending the only way to go or will I be ok with elbows? Any thoughts would be great.

you know most people suggest using at least a .120" wall tubing, but if you look at race car roll cages they are made from thinner wall tubing .095 or thinner if I remember correctly (If i'm wrong somone will correct me quickly [img]images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]), If nascar's can survive the wrecks they have at 200mphs plus on thinner tubing, it should work fine for a 4x4. Now the trick is to obviously build the cage correctly to evenly distribute the force of the roll throughout the complete cage so that one piece does not fail and cause a domino effect thus injuring the passengers.....I plan on making mine out of 2" tubing, most likely .095 thick...maybe thinner, but I also plan on doing major research and going through a good design effort to make sure that the cage is built properly.....maybe some race car fiends on here can give some feed back on the thinner walled tubing??

kerryp

The established norm seems to be .120 DOM tubing, 1.5 in. OD. Useing pre-formed elbows will be more
expensive than buying straight tubing and bending it yourself. Harder to find also. While what Kerryp
said may be true of the NASCARS tube thickness, You also need to understand that they have a cage
design that FAR exceeds what the AVERAGE Jeep has in regard to strength and the amount of bars
used in their construction. Therefor they can use the thinner tube diameter.

Ya, I've had a hard time finding the .120 DOM tubing....

I can get the 1.5" X 1.45 for $1.21 a foot.... for the price of what it will cost to buy front hoop and can have a full cage with may extra features and supports....

Is the elbow strong enough compared to the pre-bent?

Going to tie into frame as well, will try and post pic of ideas later on.

"Is the elbow strong enough compared to the pre-bent?"

I'm totally confused here. What are you guys talking about elbows and tubing? [img]images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] The only bends in the tubing should be bends, made with a tubing bender, no spliced-in elbows, pipe joints or other. I don't mean to be insulting, but this isn't your exhaust system. Your life depends on this cage. A poorly made cage could be worse than the factory cage as pipe or tubing that detaches can become a speer which impails you in an accident. The only joints in the cage should be where absolutely necessary... and never within a span of tubing.

There is always a debate of pipe vs tube as well. All I can say is that you know the specs of what you are working with and that it has the right characteristics for your structure.

I guess I am wording it wrong....lemme try again....

By pre-bent I meant factory bent, like Smittybuilt or MORE, Elbow I meant Joint/splice homemade...

Say u don't have access to a bender....can u make a cage strong enough with making joints/and or splicing them? The person welding is very good and has done it his whole life so I don't question his welding. I'm going to brace the joints after they are welded as well.

Just trying to ask this question as for reasons stated earlier....I can make this cage how I want it for my jeep for a lot less than buying a few aftermarket pieces....

There is some seriously [img]images/graemlins/bs.gif[/img] information here...

1. Yes Nascar MAY use .95 wall tube, but as I understand they require Chromoly, which is a WHOLE different ball-game than DOM, or HREW. 0.95 wall

2. A Nascar cage is built completely differently than an average offroad cage. The cage/chassis are one in the same. The average trail Jeep is 4500+ pounds, MUCH heavier than the 3500 minimum required by Nascar.

3. The average offroad cage is constructed of .120 wall 1.75 to 2" DOM or HREW, with 1.5 saved for gusseting and non-essential bracing.

4. Pipe does not = tubing. Pipe is measured ID, tube is measured OD. Different dies, different structural characteristice, etc.

5. What makes me qualified? Nothing. Not a darned thing other than the research I've done, here and elsewhere, along with the 11 cages I've built in the last year.

6. For further info on the subject, I've jotted down a few thoughts on the subject. from previous discussions.

Herb is right. Nascar may use .095" tubing but it is CroMo!!
Lumpy85 and I are gonna build our own cages. He is gonna buy the bender and dies and I am buying the welder. We found a local place here in KC that has 1.75" x .120" DOM for $2.31 ft which in my experience is smoking cheap.
Just think about this when you see the prices on the tubing. HOW MUCH IS MY LIFE OR MY FAMILY"S LIFE WORTH TO ME??!! A couple hundred bucks for good tubing dont sound so bad now does it?
Anyone in KC interested in a cage? [img]images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]
just my .02
Wade

The answer to your question on the elbows is they are OK if properly welded. I know what your talking about.

Just buy a smitty built or more cage. For what you are wanting to do you will be wasting your time cutting the tube and butt welding them together assuming that is what you are talking about. I hope you never thought of using the slide over the pipe cast iron pieces and welding those, cause that is what it sounds like you want to do.