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post #1 of (permalink) Old 02-18-2003, 09:51 PM Thread Starter
I Might Just Know What I'm Talking About
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I got this today and thought I would pass it on.
>I sat in a movie theater watching "Schindler's List," asked myself,
>didn't the Jews fight back?"
>Now I know why.
>I sat in a movie theater, watching "Pearl Harbor" and asked myself,
>weren't we prepared?"
>Now I know why.
>Civilized people cannot fathom, much less predict, the actions of evil
>On September 11, dozens of capable airplane passengers allowed
>to be overpowered by a handful of poorly armed terrorists because they
>not comprehend the depth of hatred that motivated their captors.
>On September 11, thousands of innocent people were murdered because
>many Americans naively reject the reality that some nations are
>to the dominance of others. Many political pundits, pacifists and
>personnel want us to forget the carnage. They say we must focus on the
>bravery of the rescuers and ignore the cowardice of the killers. They
>implore us to understand the motivation of the perpetrators. Major
>television stations have announced they will assist the healing
process by
>not replaying devastating footage of the planes crashing into the Twin
>I will not be manipulated.
>I will not pretend to understand.
>I will not forget.
>I will not forget the liberal media who abused freedom of the press to
> our country when it was vulnerable and hurting.
>I will not forget that CBS anchor Dan Rather preceded President Bush's
>address to the nation with the snide remark, "No matter how you feel
>him, he is still our president."
>I will not forget that ABC TV anchor Peter Jennings questioned
>Bush's motives for not returning immediately to Washington, DC and
>commented, "We're all pretty skeptical and cynical about Washington."
>And I will not forget that ABC's Mark Halperin warned if reporters
>informed of every little detail of this war, they aren't "likely --
>should they be expected -- to show deference."
>I will not isolate myself from my fellow Americans by pretending an
>on the USS Cole in Yemen was not an attack on the United States of
>I will not forget the Clinton administration equipped Islamic
>and their supporters with the world's most sophisticated
>telecommunications equipment and encryption technology, thereby
>compromising America's ability to trace terrorist radio, cell phone,
>lines, faxes and modem communications.
>I will not be appeased with pointless, quick retaliatory strikes like
> perfected by the previous administration.
>I will not be comforted by "feel-good, do nothing" regulations like
>silly "Have your bags been under your control?" question at the
>I will not be influenced by so called,"antiwar demonstrators" who
>the right of expression to chant anti-American obscenities.
>I will not forget the moral victory handed the North Vietnamese by
> war protesters who reviled and spat upon the returning soldiers,
>sailors and Marines.
>I will not be softened by the wishful thinking of pacifists who chose
>reassurance over reality.
>I will embrace the wise words of Prime Minister Tony Blair who told
>Party conference, "They have no moral inhibition on the slaughter of
>innocent. If they could have murdered not 7,000 but 70,000, does
>doubt they would have done so and rejoiced in it?
>There is no compromise possible with such people, no meeting of minds,
>point of understanding with such terror. Just a choice: defeat it or
>defeated by it. And defeat it we must!"
>I will force myself to:
>-hear the weeping
>-feel the helplessness
>-imagine the terror
>-sense the panic
>-smell the burning flesh
>- experience the loss
>- remember the hatred.
>I sat in a movie theater, watching "Private Ryan" and asked myself,
>did they find the courage?"
>Now I know.
>We have no choice. Living without liberty is not living.
>-- Ed Evans, MGySgt., USMC (Ret.)
>Not as lean, Not as mean, But still a Marine.
>Keep this going until every living American has read it and memorized
it so
> we don't make the same mistakes.

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post #2 of (permalink) Old 02-18-2003, 10:31 PM
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And I'll keep reminding people that every one of those terrorists involved in the 9/11 hijackings had visas.

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post #3 of (permalink) Old 02-18-2003, 10:33 PM
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I disagree with a lot of stuff here..
I think some of it is very unamerican.

For example
</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />

>I will not forget the liberal media who abused freedom of the press to
> our country when it was vulnerable and hurting.

[/ QUOTE ]
Abused the freedom of press?Criticizing a country/person is legal and an important part of our history (for example critcism of the king of england).
It is an important freedom, and it shouldn't be infringed about because we disagree with it.Its not putting anyone at risk

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
>I will not forget the Clinton administration equipped Islamic
>and their supporters with the world's most sophisticated
>telecommunications equipment and encryption technology, thereby
>compromising America's ability to trace terrorist radio, cell phone,
>lines, faxes and modem communications.

[/ QUOTE ]
The Bush governments have equipped less than savory people too (remember the northern alliance?or even our support of iraq during the iraq/iran war?
I think its silly to claim clinton did it so he could equip his Islamic terrorist friends whom he knew would attack the U.S.

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
>I will not be appeased with pointless, quick retaliatory strikes like
those perfected by the previous administration.

[/ QUOTE ]
While I support a war in iraq, precision is needed.
If what the author is looking for is total devestation to appease him, thats sad.
It is as if he wants a big war, not big results.
If we go rampant and carpet bomb you've got many iraqi civilians killed+many mad now homeless iraqi's+a big bill for the U.S. and our allies to repair.

I also think that you can oppose a war and still be an American.I certainly, however, am bothered by those who are anti-war(in any case) or anti-bush.They say that we don't have enough evidence, but you ask whats enough..and they basically say nothing is enough to start a war, and iraq is a soveriegn country..bblah

Getting off topic!

Anyways, not attacking you, just the mentality of the author.

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post #4 of (permalink) Old 02-18-2003, 11:03 PM
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I was driving in downtown Lincoln today and went by the Federal Building. Outside there were about 20 or so people holding up "peace" and "no war" signs. But the one that really peaved me was the one that read something about "all people deserve to live, even Iraqies". I was just looking at this wondering if these people have a clue what's going on over there.

The only reason Saddam is even in power is because if anyone even thinks about speaking up, that's pretty much it for them. He had his son-in-law shot and drug through the streets to set an example because he tried to defect and was found out when he returned.

But the thing that kills me, is wondering if these people understand how many kurds this guy had used chemical weapons on. We are talking in the hundreds of thousands here. "Ethnic Cleansing". Where have we heard this before?!?!?!?!

I mean come on, if these guys were worried about the Iraqi people they would be rejoicing that we were willing to stand up and take some action. Instead they'd rather put out commercials saying that because I/We choose to drive an SUV or off-road vehicle, we are somehow the reason for terrorism.

We see the same retoric from PETA and the Greeny's. They are so high up on their high horse, they can't see what's going on at ground level. It's time people start doing a better job at exposing these people for what they are. When idiots like Leonardo DiCaprio stand up and critisize us for driving our vehicles and play off the fact he has a hy-brid car, the media (liberal, lets all admit it) stand up and applause. Yet they say nothing about him jumping into his private jet and burning more fuel in an hour than I could conseive of burning in a YEAR off-roading.

But I don't want to keep going down this road. I want to stay positive and believe that all things aside, our country at it's heart tries to do more good for this world then the rest of it combined. We see that everyday.

So to our troops, I say "God's speed"

To us I say "Keep up the support"

And to God I pray "Guide us and help us to do all things right in Your eyes. And thank you for giving us the opportunity to live in this wonderful place."

Thanks for this post. It's given me yet another reason to appreciate all the blessings we have. And to remember those who can't be here with us to enjoy alongside us.


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post #5 of (permalink) Old 02-19-2003, 01:10 AM
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I agree here, mostly, with Joey. Can't exactly go there &amp; make the terrain straigt, wipe it all out.
To demonstrate the power is OK. It's a must for the US. And to destroy whatever facility there is making non-conventional weapons or parts for it. Absolutely. To take Saddam out could help. But people there are and will be afraid for a long time until they decide to give their REAL votes on government, president, etc. IMO, Saddam should be given a hole in the head. Quick &amp; effective.
Trust me on this one, guys, it NEVER ends with the winner. NEVER! We had a 5-year civilian war here. We say (and world agrees) that we were attacked. US bombed our enemies. And I must say I was jumping of joy &amp; celebrating when I heard that news. Thanx! But... everything's calm now, they say. Economy (almost) doesn't exist. Crooks, corruption, high crime, people living like they're Doc Holyday, or the Dalton brothers. Every week of war brings a country at least 3 years BACKWARDS. Our 5 years... Trust me, I live here. Some concepts you have, you were born with and live by, some things that are normal to you, here don't exist. Some basic things. We're back to stone age.

What I think shold be made? With innocent civilians in mind, with pressure of the world on the US about this war... I think the US should have sent some Seals, commandos (or whatever they're called - y'know, like Steven Seagal). Take out a couple of those "inconvenient" guys (Saddam etc.) and blow up storages, factories etc. that make weapons. Clean, non-detectable, quick-in-and-out, hit-and-run. And let them (and the rest of the world) suspect who did it &amp; how &amp; why. Deny every connection. And that's it. No problems for Bust, for the US, nobody complains.

I just hope everybody who goes there returns alive and in one piece.
post #6 of (permalink) Old 02-19-2003, 02:20 AM
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I guess i may be banned for what i am going to say but... I agree the Saddham isn t the nicest man in the world but i would also like to say that we DO NOT have any proof that he is having any type of massive destruction weapons!!!! ( it is a shame to see that the english government fabricate one!!!)...
As the 1431 resolution says, it is all a questions of finding them and, the UN investigators didn't find any ( at least that is what they say )...
A war is a solution but the worst one, just think about the vet of the first one dying of cancer and all type of weird disease, do you want it again??? Are you really ready for your boys to die because, sorry to say that, they will die, and not only a couple of them!!! Every single Iraqui from 7 to 77 is ready to die for his country!!!
So, find evidence and then go for war is OK, but fabricate proff and go, no way the UN is going... If US is going alone it will likely create a very bad international climat but then, they will take their responsabilities...
Anyway, i hope Saddham will act as the UN wants him to and that no war will start over there, but if we have to go we will....
Guess it was my last message here since i know that french people are hated over there right now!!!!
It was nice talking to you...
post #7 of (permalink) Old 02-19-2003, 02:37 AM
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I think the UN has finally switched onto the right tracks now.

No doubt Sadaam needs to go. But he CAN NOT be a martor.

The new resolution is exaclty what I was hoping for. Iraq has this one last chance to declare any weapons of mass destruction. After this time, if any are found, that is enough for the UN to take some action. Sanctions, heightened inspections, and eventually war.

If/When war comes under those terms and with the UN's blessing, you will find me at the front of the line saying that Iraq needs to be controled.

I don't think they will find weapons though.

IMHO. The short and skinny..

Bush wants Iraq (whatever reason)
Claims they have weapons.
No weapons found.
Needs a single excuse to invade in the hopes of finding weapons.
May or may not happen.
He's backed himself into a corner. He pretty much lost Tony Blairs support with the pre-emptive strike policy. He is alone, and he will not be re-elected. A true test of character will come in the next few weeks. Will he commit his country to an unnecessary and illegal war, or will he admit his mistake and stand down.

Unfortunately I think the former is his obecjetive.

I'm not anti-war, or anti-bush.
But striking blindly because you think the enemy is an enemy... that's wrong and I would hope that if the United States did such a thing, the UN would levvie embargoes and trade barriers against the United States.
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post #8 of (permalink) Old 02-19-2003, 02:54 AM
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I agree at 200% with you Infernozx... About why he would likue to take control of Iraq i think it is a question of petrol!!! The US have almost all of this part of the world when it comes to petrol production, they seems to be in desesperate need of more (don t forget that the Bush administration opened some protectd land in Alaska to some petrol companies)...
Tony Blair can t do much now since the report affair, can you believe that his administration just "copy/paste" a student work and then presented it as an official report about the situation in Iraq!!!!
One other "funny" thing, a couple days ago Al Jahazira broadcasted a voice recording which was supposed to be Bin Laden. Useally it takes around 2 weeks to know if it is really him or not, this time it took 2 days!!!...
I think the Bush administration thought the rest of the world would believe everything they d say and would go with him anywhere, but not, the "old" europe has the power to say "no" and has a veto that she is ready to use...
The last EU meeting finished with a good resolution, "give us some REAL proff and we will go, if not take your responsabilities"....
post #9 of (permalink) Old 02-19-2003, 03:16 AM
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I agree, French.
Maybe I got too philosophical upthere, but that's the bottom line: find proofs &amp; then hit. No proofs - tuff luck.
But what I wanted to say, even with proofs, no need for war. I thought it'd be enough to hit those "bad" guys, hit some factories, without devastating the entire state.
post #10 of (permalink) Old 02-19-2003, 06:34 AM
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Of course they won't find weapons, but not because they're not there. The US has the evidence, and laid plenty of it at the UN's feet a couple weeks back, but the French, Germans, etc. don't care to listen to evidence.

At first, those arguing against war said there was no evidence of material breech, and to "give the inspectors time."

The Iraqis were allowed to make their declaration, which was 12K pages of lies detailing NONE of the previously known weapons they did have. Many in the UN responded, saying to wait, and to "give the inspectors time."

Empty, but NEW chemical warheads were found (answer, please, WHY a nation that claims to have NO chemical weapons needs NEW chemical warheads???), placing Iraq in direct material breach of the resolution. France, Germany, et al? "Give the inspectors time."

Powell gives a detailed list of reasons why Iraq is a threat, where they are likely hiding weapons underground, moving stores, and evading inspection teams. France, Germany, et al? "Give the inspectors time."

and on, and on....

I think it's funny that the anti-war protestors complain that Bush is just doing this for oil. The fact of the matter is that France and Germany have signed lucrative agreements with the present, corrupt Iraqi regime to get first pickings of Iraqi oil sold the moment UN sanctions are lifted. Incidentally, these have been two nations giving the most effort in recent years to lifting the UN sanctions, regardless of the threat Iraq poses.

Even during the sanctions, several nations were active in selling weapons technology and hardware to Iraq. Those nations? France, Germany, Russia, China, North Korea. Who is presently most against action vs. Saddam? France, Germany, Russia, China, North Korea. Anyone that thinks these and other nations are arguing against this war for high-moralled, unselfish reasons is kidding themselves.

I'm not surprised that France and Germany don't want to depose Saddam. They're not the ones the terrroists will go after first. I have my own personal suspections that these nations actually want to see more tragedy in America because they have personal jealous power vendettas against us. But that's mostly conjecture, albeit not unfounded.

As many have said before, we can't wait for the "smoking gun" that the UN clamors about wanting to see. The gun only smokes when it goes off, and we all know who it's aimed at. I am grateful to the Bush administration for not bowing to international pressure to NOT protect our nation against this threat.

"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."
-- John Stewart Mill

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