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post #1 of (permalink) Old 12-03-2002, 07:52 AM Thread Starter
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cold weather, 258, and glow plug question/idea!

the theory is that the reason that 258's run so bad when it is cold is because of the long cold intake manifold. so my brother and i were talking and came up with the idea of using one (or several) glow plugs from a diesel and putting them into the intake manifold. the idea is that i would use a newer one that holds coolant and fill it with a liquid that won't evaporate and seal of the manifold so it is not plummed into the cooling system. so you jump in the jeep in the cold morning, hit the switch for the glow plug(s) to warm the intake, wait a bit, then start it and turn the glow plugs off.

so what do you think? btw- i have never even seen a glow plug, and don't know much about them, other than they are used to preheat a deisel? also do they work in liquid or would they be better in open air?

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post #2 of (permalink) Old 12-03-2002, 08:17 AM
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Re: cold weather, 258, and glow plug question/idea!

Sounds like an interesting idea, though I wouldn't use the glow plugs. The later 258's came with a heating element right under the middle of the intake. It would warm the intake until the coolant passing through the manifold warmed up and reached a predetermined temp, then the element would switch off.

As far as sealing off the intake, sounds like a risky idea. There really isn't any way to stop heating the liquid in the intake if it's sealed. Even if you switched off the glow plugs or heating element, it would continue to heat up just through heat soak from the block and head.

Just my .02
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post #3 of (permalink) Old 12-03-2002, 08:28 AM Thread Starter
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Re: cold weather, 258, and glow plug question/idea!

why no glow plugs? the intake i have on now is the older style with no coolant running through it, so it essentually just relies on the air to cool it. about this heater you talked about, i never heard of it before, tell me more please. if it heats the coolant around the intake, as soon as you start the engine and the coolant starts to circulate, the warmed coolant will be replaced with cold coolant, but i guess that would depend on which side of the thermostat you hook it to?

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shawn
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post #4 of (permalink) Old 12-03-2002, 10:09 AM
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Re: cold weather, 258, and glow plug question/idea!

The glow plugs just seem to make things complicated. Why engineer a manifold heater when Jeep already did? [img]images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

The coolant through the manifold is designed to heat the manifold, not cool it. This is necessary to keep the fuel atomized as it travels down the long intake runners.

Look Here for info regarding the manifold heater.
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post #5 of (permalink) Old 12-03-2002, 10:28 AM Thread Starter
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Re: cold weather, 258, and glow plug question/idea!

I have never heard of these before. What year were they put on jeeps? Other jeepers have complained that their jeeps had trouble starting in cold weather. So do they these heaters work fast and well? Will these heaters work with any manifold. Also what do the heaters look like?

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shawn
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post #6 of (permalink) Old 12-03-2002, 10:43 AM
 
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Re: cold weather, 258, and glow plug question/idea!

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
. . .it essentually just relies on the air to cool it.

[/ QUOTE ]
The water flowing through the newer style intake does not cool it. It heats it to keep the fuel mixture from condensing.

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
as soon as you start the engine and the coolant starts to circulate, the warmed coolant will be replaced with cold coolant

[/ QUOTE ]
It goes in the heater hose loop. Water flows from the water outlet to the intake, from the intake to the heater core, then back to the water pump. This loop is not controlled by the thermostat.


</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
about this heater you talked about, i never heard of it before, tell me more please.

[/ QUOTE ]
There is a 3" diameter hole in the intake directly under the carb - the heater is bolted in there. It does not heat the coolant - the inside is a metal plage with "spikes" on it. Any liquid fuel leaving the carb lands on it and get vaporized. The heater is controlled by a thermostat in the water jacket - once the collant gets to about 150 degrees, the heater shuts off and the hot coolant takes over it's job of vaporizing the fuel.

I tried to take a picture, but the batteries in my camera were dead and I don't have any more [img]images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]
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post #7 of (permalink) Old 12-03-2002, 10:46 AM
 
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Re: cold weather, 258, and glow plug question/idea!

I just went back and re-read your original post and confused myself. If you're going to use an intake with a water jacket, why do you need glow plugs? Why not just run the coolant through it like it was intended to do?
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post #8 of (permalink) Old 12-03-2002, 10:57 AM Thread Starter
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Re: cold weather, 258, and glow plug question/idea!

i have never heard about this heater before. so do these heaters actaully work? i have heard many people complain about having this same cold weather problem.

************************************************** *************
If you're going to use an intake with a water jacket, why do you need glow plugs? Why not just run the coolant through it like it was intended to do?
************************************************** **************
with the intake with coolant in it, the coolant is just as cold as your engine, so when you first start it, until your engine warms up, the coolant is not helping to heat the intake. this is the problem that i am trying to fix.

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post #9 of (permalink) Old 12-03-2002, 11:08 AM
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Re: cold weather, 258, and glow plug question/idea!

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
with the intake with coolant in it, the coolant is just as cold as your engine, so when you first start it, until your engine warms up, the coolant is not helping to heat the intake. this is the problem that i am trying to fix.

[/ QUOTE ]

And that's the problem Jeep fixed with the manifold heater referenced in my post above and by dschwab9. I would try to find a newer style intake and manifold heater if I were in your shoes. Could be a world easier than trying to jury rig the glow plug set up.
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post #10 of (permalink) Old 12-03-2002, 11:13 AM
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Re: cold weather, 258, and glow plug question/idea!

If heating the air to the intake on cold days is the issue, why try a heat riser? They draw air off the exhaust manifold thru a tube into the air cleaner. Most use a vacuum thermostat controlled damper in the air cleaner horn to block off the cold air flowing into the horn causing it to pull "warm" air until the engine is warmed sufficiently. The early versions used a "trap" to push warm exhaust back to the intake.
Seems to me your trying to re-invent the wheel [img]images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]. Most vehicles made in the last 30-35 years used some variant of heat riser.
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