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post #1 of (permalink) Old 11-28-2002, 04:53 PM
silverstar
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CJ5 Torque converter bad? TF904 964?

Happy Thanksgiving! Apologize for length of post- covering bases.

1982 CJ5 w/ 304 (yes, I know no factory option 304 in 1982 - motor swap two owners ago) orig had I4. Driving to Turkey dinner on I-35 at 65 mph the engine raced - immediately no transfer of any power to transmission or wheels. No noise of any kind (gears, bell housing, t-case disintegrating, etc) Slid shifter to Neutral and coasted to stop. Initial inspection hand tested for excessive heat on power train components - nothing hot - had only traveled about 5 miles from home. Underneath saw blowback oil from rusted through dip stick tube wetted back of block, bell housing and probably torque converter/flywheel. Also some t-fluid on bottom cover plate but level on dipstick (engine running)showed about same as last check three weeks ago. Tried all combinations of shifter w/2WD4WD fwd, rev - nada, zip, nothing. High rpms needed to shift regularly - Holley/Edelbrock intake - previous owner motorhead.

1.Does this sound like converter failure or at least slippage caused by oil blowback?
2.Or tranny rebuild?
3.Bell housing has “964-3" cast on each side - is this a 3rd party # related to TF904? Could not find TF 964 model. Also stamped “85" near t-case end so probably was rebuild/replace at some point.
4. Is this a DIY? Have lots of tools.

Shiftless in Oklahoma

Thanks in advance,
Marshall
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post #2 of (permalink) Old 11-28-2002, 06:25 PM
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Re: CJ5 Torque converter bad? TF904 964?

1. It'd doubt it's a TC problem.. they normally don't die in an instant.
2. It's likely a problem with the pump.
3. Are there any debris in the ATF?
4. The AT number can be found on the machined ledge between the shifter shaft and the transmision pan.


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post #3 of (permalink) Old 11-28-2002, 06:48 PM
silverstar
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Re: CJ5 Torque converter bad? TF904 964?

Thanks for the speedy post and super photo! [img]images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] There is a selector lever linkage bracket blocking that number so I'll check it in the A.M. along with ATF debris.
Marshall
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post #4 of (permalink) Old 11-29-2002, 11:09 AM
silverstar
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Re: CJ5 Torque converter bad? TF904 964?

Update

ATF has a subtle metallic sheen - like a fine pearl laquer [img]images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] if it weren’t so ominous it might be beautiful.

Number on flange: 8953003074 8886 3811

Unfortunately, I live about 15 miles from my warehouse and don't have much time to repair my self. Holiday tow to the house was $75 hookup + $2.88/mile! I'm in the wrong business.

What's the prognosis doc, and any observations on options are appreciated.

Shiftless and Shiny in Norman,
Marshall
post #5 of (permalink) Old 11-29-2002, 12:24 PM
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Re: CJ5 Torque converter bad? TF904 964?

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
ATF has a subtle metallic sheen - like a fine pearl laquer

[/ QUOTE ] </font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
What's the prognosis doc, and any observations on options are appreciated

[/ QUOTE ] HUmm.. In my humble opinion... it's teardown time. Have the vehicle resting up in the air... I use jackstands on the back and have the front tires on ramps. This gives you plenty of room to work.

1. Remove the shift knob.
2. Remove the transmission tunnel cover.
3. Remove tht transmission dipstick tube hold down to firewall.
4. Put a jackstand under the Transfer case Yoke to support the drive train.
5. Remove the transmission skid plate.
6. Remove the kickdown assembly at the transmission.
7. Remove the shift linkage at the transmission.
8. Remove the speedometer cable.
9. Remove the wiring to the transmission.
10. Remove the cooler lines.

Buy some 1/4" cable and and cable clamps and a cheap come-along, I'd suggest 12 feet of cable.

Make up a cable and thread it over both frame rails and UNDER the back of the transfer case. Clamp the cable ends and now you can remvoe the jackstand and have plenty of room to work.

Lay a 2X4" from the roll bar to the windshield frame. Laying with the 3.75" up, attach the come-along to the wood. Use the remaining cable to make go from the come-along down through the tunnel and wrap around the front of the transmission. You'll actually see a couple of ears just behind the bellhousing that work fine to loop the cable through.

11. Make a 2nd cable to suppor the rear of the engine or put a small floor jack under the rear of the engine supported by the pan with a block of wood between the pan and the jack. I prefrer a cable and then I'm free to work.
12. Remove the starter.
13. Remove the front driveline from the transfer case.
14. Remove the back driveline fromt he transfer case.
15. Wire the free drive line ends of the frame rails to get them out of the way.
16. Remove the transmission pan and drain the transmission. This can be messy so be prepared.. and do a NEAT job. Less to clean up that way.
17. Remove the Torque Converter access sheild at the bottom of the transmission.
18. MARK the Flexplate and TC relationship (I use spray paint.).
19. Remove the Torque Converter bolts.
20. Remove ALL bellhousing to engine bolts. Don't forget the two pesky ones at the top.
21. Use a srewdriver or crowbar to seperate the engine/transmisision.
22. Move the transmisson/transfer case to the rear. You may wan to use a floor jack at the transfer case yoke as support and remove the cable.
23. Remove the Torque Converter. Remember it's full of ATF and is heavy.
24. Lower the front of the transmission to the floor.
25. Lower the rear of the transfer case to the floor.
26. Drag out the assembly and divorce the two units.

When you reinstall, it's simply the reverse. I would also suggest using some 3/8"X9" threaded rod and secure these rods into the engine block. Then use the come-along to raise the transmission and transfer case to the rods and simply push the assembly foward onto the rods. Use some washers and nuts to secure the transmission and you can also use them to mate the engine and transmisision. Put in a couple of other bolts and then remove the threaded rod.

You can rebuild a CJ AT over a weekend with average skills. NAPA here in Spokane tells me that the Master Rebuild Kit number is 1-6034, but that doesn't follow NAPA Part Numbers. NAPA can order the ASTG Chrysler 727/904 manual for $20 and JCW is $15. It's can be purchased online from ASTG. NAPA here in Spokane tells me that the Master Rebuild Kit number is 1-6034, but that doesn't follow NAPA Part Numbers. JCWHitney also sells a Master rebuild kit and the same manual...

This is not a normal NAPA stocked item, and they may miss it when they go though the manuals listing the first time. Don't let the name of the manual fool you, it also covers the TF-999.

Hard Parts are avaliable locally at a transmission parts supply house. When I was in Texas rebuilding my daughter's Ford C4 several years ago I just called the local independent transmission shops and ask them where they got parts. I was within a 20 mile drive of the parts house! Just ask around locally and you'll be able to find the Hard Parts quite quickly.
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post #6 of (permalink) Old 11-29-2002, 12:51 PM
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Re: CJ5 Torque converter bad? TF904 964?

WOW!

Very cool and complete. The cable idea is super and would have saved me a lot of headache (literally) when I had my 73 Commando.

Time to get busy....

Thanks again!
Marshall
post #7 of (permalink) Old 11-29-2002, 07:56 PM
 
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Re: CJ5 Torque converter bad? TF904 964?

my only question is exactly how long is the rear driveshaft in a cj5 with an automatic tranny ?? are we sure its not a cj7 ??just wondering [img]images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]
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post #8 of (permalink) Old 12-01-2002, 05:22 PM
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Re: CJ5 Torque converter bad? TF904 964?

Common syptoms of a torque converter going bad:
1) Driving around and the rpm's seem like there are getting higher to the point where you can bearly move.
2)Car stops moving and you shut it off for awhile (LIKE A HALF HOUR) and you then you decide to try it again to move and it seems to move again with no problems till it gets hot again.
3) You check the torque converter and it is blued' from the excess heat.
4) You check your tranny fluid and it doesn't appear to be burnt and doesn't smell burnt.
post #9 of (permalink) Old 12-01-2002, 05:25 PM
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Re: CJ5 Torque converter bad? TF904 964?

3 jeep guy i got a cj5 with a th350 and my driveshaft is 10 5/16" long works great to.
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