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post #1 of (permalink) Old 02-28-2002, 10:19 PM Thread Starter
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Ignition??? TeamRush

I have done the TeamRush upgrade to my stock 86 CJ7. I have also taken out the computer and put in a mc2100. I am having the engine completely rebuilt as we speak. I had some detonation problems in the past.

I am considering putting in a DUI ignition. I donít want the ignition system to cause detonation and damage to my new engine and will spend the $450 to make sure it doesnít happen if necessary.

Since I have the stock distributor and the TR upgrade (Ford Cap, Rotor, MSD canister coil) should I scrap it all for a DUI HEI or put in a MSD 6 box????

Also, Can I get the stock distibutor recurved?
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post #2 of (permalink) Old 02-28-2002, 10:53 PM
 
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Re: Ignition??? TeamRush

I understand your concern. Engine rebuild is EXPENSIVE!

First off, Recurving the stock distributor is a piece of cake!
Motorcraft made their distributors VERY easy to tune!

Detonation is going to happen with both ignitions if they are not tuned correctly.
You will stand a better chance with the stock Ignition and the cap, rotor, coil, plug wire upgrade.
This ignition system is tuned specifically for your vehicle, and as long as you keep the stock amount of initial timing, you shouldn't have any problems.

Detonation is going to occur with any ignition, but will be lessened if you are SURE there are no vacuum/ air leaks, and the mixture isn't too lean, and the ignition TOTAL timing isn't too far advanced.
(If you have detonation now, going to a GM style HEI is a good way to have even more, more advance quicker, less spark energy, = More detonation...)

If I had an '86, the first thing I would do is double and triple check the for intake leaks, EGR leaks, ect.

The next thing I'd do is make sure the idle mixture is rich enough, and evenly balanced.

If I had detonation problems in the past, and I was going to use the same basic parts, I'd spring for a Detonation Sensor ('Knock' sensor, dash mounted).
This will let me detect even very small amounts of detonation I couldn't hear with the plain ear, or detect on the spark plugs yet.
MSD P/N 8964 $142.95

A good way to determine if your fuel mixture is correct is a Rich/Lean indicator.
You install an O2 sensor in your exhaust collector, and a dash mounted display will tell you if your mixture is rich or lean. (lean will cause detonation)
MSD P/N 8933. $149.95

You can control your timing WHILE DRIVING, up to 15 degrees with a dash mounted knob.
MSD P/N 8680. $92.50

MSD 6A module is always a good investment.
The DUI and the Motorcraft/ DuraSpark ignitions are both Inductive.
The MSD 6A module will upgrade you to a Capacitive Discharge Ignition (CDI) system, and you can use the Stock distributor. (that will save you a ton of money!)
This one very reasonably priced upgrade will increase your useable spark energy 100% to 1,000% !
There is no better bang for your money.
MSD P/N 6200 $132.95

I personally think your money is best spent on the 6A module and the knock sensor if you have detonation problems.

(prices are from the Summit catalog http://www.summitracing.com )

So many cats, so few recipes...
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post #3 of (permalink) Old 02-28-2002, 11:02 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Ignition??? TeamRush

OK, so if I install the MSD 6A, what other parts do I need? Do I need instructions, or is it self explanitory? Do I have to do aything to my distributer, recurve?

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post #4 of (permalink) Old 03-01-2002, 12:11 AM
 
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Re: Ignition??? TeamRush

Technically, you don't need anything else, you can just cut and splice,
BUT...
I'd order a MSD P/N 8869. It's an adaptor harness that allows you to plug the MSD module directly into the Motorcraft distributor with out cutting any wires... (Under $10 last time I got one)
This thing keeps the trigger polarity correct, something almost EVERY one screws up...

If you are going to mount your MSD module very far from the distributor, I'd also do a MSD 8862.
It's a magnetic shielded 'Extension Cord' for the magnetic trigger wires. Not 'Necessary' but very helpful...

If you are going to use the E-core coil, I'd get another coil connector...
NAPA P/N ICC-1 (About $14 dollars now!) and connect it straight to the MSD module coil wires like in the diagram.

All you need to do is unplug and tape over your two wire connector to the module, and plug in the MSD stuff and go!

Check out this diagram,


Doing it this way, if something happens to the MSD module, you can always plug the DuraSpark module back in, plug the distributor back into the factory harness, and plug the coil back into the factory harness, (3 connections) and you are back on the road with a back up ignition system.

So many cats, so few recipes...
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post #5 of (permalink) Old 03-01-2002, 06:47 AM
 
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Re: Ignition??? TeamRush

OK Aaron, dumb question time...
This diagram is NOT what I was doing with mine! I was using your TR upgrade drawing with the standard Ford Module, and simply inserting the MSD into the "loop" using a TFI coil adapter harness from MSD.
Will THIS way work better, elimating the stock module?


BillR
'86 CJ-7, 360, T-18, Dana 300, OEM Dana 44, locked and loaded!
'97 TJ, bone-stock (for now...)
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post #6 of (permalink) Old 03-01-2002, 09:52 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Ignition??? TeamRush

I am a bit confused also. I have a MSD 8205 canister coil and have been using the stock coil adapter. Do I cut the wires leading to the stock adapter and splice them onto the MSD harness. This would bypass the whole engine wireing harness and make the ignition system totally self contained. The tach needs to hook up in this somewhere???

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post #7 of (permalink) Old 03-01-2002, 10:12 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Ignition??? TeamRush

One more question, I have asked this with no response. Maybe it is really a stupid question. Can my stock distributer be tued up, recurved, etc? If so what should I have done to it and by whom?

Also what plug wires should I get?

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post #8 of (permalink) Old 03-01-2002, 10:50 AM
 
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Re: Ignition??? TeamRush

*86CJ7 Wrote,
* I have a MSD 8205 canister coil and have been using the stock coil adapter. Do I cut the wires
leading to the stock adapter (connector) and splice them onto the MSD harness.*

I wouldn't.
I'd get a second coil connector from NAPA or somewhere and connect the new one to the MSD module coil wires.
-----------------

*This would bypass the whole engine wireing harness and make the ignition system totally self contained. *

THAT IS CORRECT!
You have a back up system (the stock one) if the MSD module ever fails on the trail.
Switch the plugs back over to the stock distributor plug, the stock coil plug and plug in the module, and you are back on the road in five minutes.
------------------

*The tach needs to hook up in this somewhere???*

MSD supplies a tach port on the side of the module. Some Jeep tachs need a tach adaptor, some plug right in with no problems.
------------------

*One more question, I have asked this with no response. Maybe it is really a stupid question. Can my stock distributer be tued up, recurved, etc? If so what should I have done to it and by whom?*

Check the second line of my first post back to you...
The Motorcraft distributor is VERY easy to tune (re curve), and provides more stable timing advance than the GM HEI style.
You can make a Motorcraft distributor do most anything you want it to.
-------------------

*Also what plug wires should I get?*

I use MSD 8.8mm almost exclusively now. Low resistance, virtually no leakage, the way they are wound keeps the noise out of everything, connector ends that say where you put them, boots that don't leak moisture in or voltage out...
Expensive though, they start at about $60 a set.
-------------------

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post #9 of (permalink) Old 03-01-2002, 10:56 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Ignition??? TeamRush

Great, thanks for all your help.

Can I re curve the distributer myself?

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post #10 of (permalink) Old 03-01-2002, 10:59 AM
 
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Re: Ignition??? TeamRush

*BillR Wrote*
OK Aaron, dumb question time...
This diagram is NOT what I was doing with mine! I was using your TR upgrade drawing with the standard Ford Module, and simply inserting the MSD into the "loop" using a TFI coil adapter harness from MSD.
Will THIS way work better, elimating the stock module?*

Having the module in the circuit doesn't do anything but make your install Emissions Legal.

Having the module in the circuit DOES add other things that can go wrong with the ignition, IE: Module, Factory harness, EM noise getting into the factory wiring, ect.

The arrangement you are using will be the 'White Wire Trigger' install...
See this graphic http://bbs.off-road.com/wwwthreads_u...epMSDLegal.gif
I don't want to post it here as not to confuse this thread....

Both ways will deliver the same amount of spark energy to the plugs.
The first graphic I posted here is just the easiest way to do things to have a simple, redundant, cost effective ignition system... (poor mans' James Bond).

So many cats, so few recipes...
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