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post #1 of (permalink) Old 02-15-2002, 08:28 PM Thread Starter
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d30vsd44

i'm currently running a 30 w/456's, warn axles, and a lockright. i run 33 to 36" swampers with a basically stock 258. i've sheared the pins in the lockright once, and on my last run, shattered my carrier. i'm either going to put a detroit in the 30, or have a dodge 44 cut down. i'm leaning towards the detroit because i really don't want to give up that much clearance, i've heard that the 44's ring&pinion is only about 15% stronger, and it's a lot easier. with the warn axles, is the only real benefit of the 44 a stronger r&p? any input is appreciated.

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post #2 of (permalink) Old 02-15-2002, 08:31 PM
 
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Re: d30vsd44

if you wheel it hard enuf to grenade a carrier you might wanna spend the bucks and cut own a dana 60

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post #3 of (permalink) Old 02-15-2002, 10:49 PM
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Re: d30vsd44

If you are still sprung under. You really dont loose much ground clerance. The springs sit just as low and the 44 pig does. If i remember in the morning i will take a pic of mine. I did the waggy 44 with 4in cut off the long side.

Can someone please bring me a hammer my 33's just ate my fender again. Damn i need more lift.
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post #4 of (permalink) Old 02-16-2002, 09:29 AM
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Re: d30vsd44

A D44 is about 11 1/2" top to bottom, where a D30 is about 10", so you're only giving up about 3/4" clearance under the diff. Besides the bigger R&P (8 1/2" vs 7 1/8"), you get 3" diameter, 3/8" wall tubes instead of 2 1/2" X 1/4", and bigger spider gears, side gears, carrier and bearings.
The D44, without axels or knuckles, weighs about 130 pounds, where the D30 weighs 85. There's a lot more there than bigger R&P.

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post #5 of (permalink) Old 02-16-2002, 09:52 AM
 
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Re: d30vsd44

Just more food for thought:

I'm keeping my 30 up front and putting a 44 in the back. I don't think I'll be wheeling hard enough to break the 30, but I may be wrong [img]/wwwthreads_images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

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post #6 of (permalink) Old 02-17-2002, 08:02 AM
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Re: d30vsd44

<font color=red>i've heard that the 44's ring&pinion is only about 15% stronger</font color=red>

Whoever told you that doesn't have a clue. Just about everything on a D44 is larger, and the ring & pinion is no exception. There is little comparison between the two as far as strength goes.

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post #7 of (permalink) Old 02-17-2002, 11:07 AM
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Re: d30vsd44

A stock 44 is probably 100% stronger than a stock CJ 30. That is comparing the strength of the axles as complete assemblies. That being said, a modified 30 can approach the strength of a 44. I am currently running a Dana 30 in the front of my CJ. Mine has Warn shafts, 297 joints, a Detroit, and 5.38 gears. A 44 is stronger than my axle only in the strength of the R&P. My Detroit is not going to break any easier than a 44 Detroit, My axle shafts are stronger than stock 44 axle shafts, and I am running the same u-joints as a 44. As for the comparative strength ot the R&P sets I have heard the same 15% number you have, I have been told that by highly respected gear vendors and axle builders. Personally I feel that that is a little low. I would guess that the 44 R&P is 25-30% stronger than the 30. However the 15% number I have heard comes from guys who know more about this than I do.

I have slowly changed my opinion on the value of swapping in a 44. For someone who has a stock 30 it makes some sense because the cost is similar to building up the 30 and you do get a stronger R&P. For someone like me or you who has a 30 which is built to be nearly as strong as a 30 can get swapping in a 44 does not make a whole lot of sense. The 44 would not be a significant upgrade for me considering the costs and benefits. Unfortunatly I have come to this conclusion a little too late, I have a 44 nearly completed and sitting in my garage.

For you I would say get the Detroit and run your 30 while you think about whether you need a stronger axle. If you add the Detroit you will have essentially the same axle as me, and I have beat the crap out of mine with no breakage (so far). Your weak link is the stock carrier and lock-rite combo, eliminate that and you will have a very stout axle. If you then feel that you need more, you will be in the same boat as me. My opinion is that the 44 I have built is not going to be enough, I'm probably going to have to try to sell it and build a 60.

BTW the most common breakage I have seen with Warn axled 30s is the u-joints. They give it up, and sometimes take the Warn shafts out as well. I have seen a few torn up R&P sets, but it is mostly joints. CTM joints would solve the joint problem and are applicable to both 44s and upgraded 30s.



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post #8 of (permalink) Old 02-17-2002, 02:41 PM
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Re: d30vsd44

77K miles, all stock 258, T18, D30 with 3.54s, 30" Mud TAs, trying to back up hill out of a ditch.

I might have been born at night, but it wasn't LAST night.
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post #9 of (permalink) Old 02-18-2002, 06:57 AM
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Re: d30vsd44

Talked to one of my axle builder friends yesterday and kind of got scolded for taking things out of context. He says he was refering to the reverse 30 another buddy is running in his TJ.

According to him in a front axle application a standard cut 44 R&P is roughly 15% stronger than a reverse cut 30 R&P which is approximately 30% stronger than a standard cut 30 R&P, making the standard 44 about 50% stronger than a standard 30. Again this is only for front axle applications, I didn't ask what percentage to factor in for a reverse 44. If it is 30% like for the 30 then a reverse 44 would be about 95% stronger than a standard cut 30.

So the R&P is a good bit stronger than the 30 but the shafts, knuckles, and hubs are still gonna be a weakness. That has been what has turned me off to the 44 swap. The outer ends of the axle being no stronger than the modified 30 that I have now doesn't really do me much good. Now a reverse 44 R&P with all 60 parts from the carrier out is starting to sound pretty good.

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