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post #1 of (permalink) Old 01-02-2002, 04:10 PM Thread Starter
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Now I have a couple of 220v welder wiring ?s

Rather than confuse or tie up the other post I am going to ask a few questions here. I just wired up an outlet for my Miller 175 and would like to see if anyone sees anything wrong with the way I did it. I ran a 3' line of 10-3 w/ground off of a 30 amp breaker directly below my fuse box and wired in a 50amp in wall plug. I hooked the ground and nuetral together on the plug and have them both connected to the bus bar (ground bar). I am correct in thinking that I only need to ground the plug and not use a nuetral aren't I? I know the breaker is more than the welder will draw max rating (20amps in the book), so I could go back and change it if required. Anything I missed or need to change? Thanks.

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post #2 of (permalink) Old 01-02-2002, 04:20 PM
 
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Re: Now I have a couple of 220v welder wiring ?s

I'm assuming this is a 3 pin plug, in which case there is no neutral, only a ground (which you've got both the white wire and bare wire connected to)
If that's the case, you should be fine.
Breakers should only be loaded to 80% capacity continuously. You can't put a 20 amp load on a 20 amp breaker, you'll need either a 25 or 30 amp unit (yes, they make a 25amp) Your 30 amp unit should be ok.

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post #3 of (permalink) Old 01-02-2002, 04:29 PM
 
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Re: Now I have a couple of 220v welder wiring ?s

Yep, looks good. TR may give you some advice on seperating Neutral and GND. I do know that code requires seperating it at times (when doing a sub panel I beleive?). I will say that wiring in a 50A plug is an electrician no no. If joe blow was in the house they might say "oh honey, there is a 50A plug, we can plug the dryer in there!". No problems, it would just trip the breaker. 10 Guage is rated at 30A I believe. Everything is fine, but just not to "code". Just my humble Engineering opinion.

There is a BIG difference between EE's and Electricians btw, one has a "code" to follow ALL the time (hopefully) and the other makes educated decisions on when to bend the rules a little in custom applications.
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post #4 of (permalink) Old 01-02-2002, 05:35 PM
 
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Re: Now I have a couple of 220v welder wiring ?s

I have a question or two for you...
On a Miller 175, does the plug look like a giant 110V plug? (yes)
One blade larger than the other, and a round 'ground' ? (yes)
Hooked to 12/3 wire? (yes)
<hr>

The socket for that plug only comes in 50 amp, and it's used almost exclusively for welders now.
So you don't really have a choice unless you want to cut the plug off your brand new welder an scab on or hard wire it.

Your Miller 175 is rated at 19.5 amps at rated output.
The 30 amp breaker is appropriate, 10 Ga. wire is fine for 30 amp breaker and your outlet.
If you want to 'bullet-proof' your assembly, use 8 Ga. and some corrosion guard grease on the wire contacts at the breaker, the outlet, and on the blades of your plug...

The Miller 175 is not a digital controlled welder, so bonding the neutral and ground together is fine, just make sure your home service box has a good ground rod and 8 Ga. solid copper ground wire.
Sounds like you have the correct ideas for this MIG outlet!

DO NOT ATTEMPT TO RUN A STICK WELDER OFF THIS OUTLET!

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post #5 of (permalink) Old 01-02-2002, 08:55 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Now I have a couple of 220v welder wiring ?s

Thanks everyone.

Yep, the plug is like the 110 and the only sockets I have come by that match are the 50amp. The cord is 12-3.

The ground wire on the box is at least 8ga and runs into a good grounding rod just outside of the wall. I try to keep my electrical runs short if possible and this worked out well, so I don't have to use any extensions and can weld inside or outside my garage with this setup.

I plan on taking the outlet and wiring out when I move and I'll just put a blank plate on it. I'm also going to mark it for use with the welder(mig)only, even though I should be the only one using it.

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post #6 of (permalink) Old 01-02-2002, 09:31 PM
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Re: Now I have a couple of 220v welder wiring ?s

i'll be nice and sit this one out i'm not an electrician but have taken code classes, one thing they tell you is the code book does not teach you to be an electrician, teaches just the code btw grounding and grounded wires, two different things in the book, one is a current carry the other is a safety/equipment ground. MOST of the time the only place they should tie together is the buss in breaker panel.

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post #7 of (permalink) Old 01-02-2002, 10:16 PM
 
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Re: Now I have a couple of 220v welder wiring ?s

A small correction and additional specs from the Millermatic 175 booklet ...

********************************

" 19.5 is the "Ampheres INPUT at Rated Load Output 230V, 50/60 Hz, Single-Phase "
(*not OUTPUT*)

" Input Voltage - 230 "

" Input Ampheres At Rated Output - 20 "

" Max Recommended Standard Fuse Or Circuit Breaker Rating In Ampheres - 20 "

" Maximum Recommeded Input Conductor Length in feet - 66 "

" Min Grounding Conductor Size in AWG - 12 " (diagram of earth ground)

******************

I do realize these published figures are somewhat conservative.
Had my long time professional (well seasoned commercial/residentual) electrician over to the house, store and new shop this afternoon looking at new years building improvments ... especially the additions of plugs for the new MM 175 MIG ...

Here is what he thought would be appropriate for the house (the longest run off the box of the three locations) ...
Service into my (large - inside) fuse pannel is only a 6 ft long 2.5" Dia. conduit run from the meter.
Dual 20 Amp breakers and a set of 10 Ga wires to the plug (standard welding variety .. round ground and wide plus narrow prongs) which will be about 20 feet away plus a custom built 50 ft. 3/10 extension with matching plugs (for when need arises).

Herb, my electrician, did agree that anything much longer than 50 ft. (especially 100+ ft.) extension would require upsizing to 8 Ga.

*********************

I guess I'll have to quiz him on the 25 and 30 Amp breaker suggestions.
But the Miller book does say ...
" Max Recommended Standard Fuse Or Circuit Breaker Rating In Ampheres - 20 "
... and as I said, this is most likely a very conservitave published spec.






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post #8 of (permalink) Old 01-03-2002, 02:13 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Now I have a couple of 220v welder wiring ?s

camo_trash,
I understand what you are saying about the ground/ing wires. I just figured it couldn't hurt to "double equipment ground" the plug, but that is why asked, as I am no electrician/EE.

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post #9 of (permalink) Old 01-03-2002, 06:06 PM
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Re: Now I have a couple of 220v welder wiring ?s

[img]/wwwthreads_images/icons/smile.gif[/img] The camotrash is right. Neutral is neutral and ground is ground. Neutral is a current carrying conductor and ground is just that, an equipment ground. Generally, if you have a machine which uses 220 AND 110 when it operates, then you would want to run a four-wire plug because if the neutral burns away, YOU would be the neutral and provide a ground path for the current. Since clothes dryers use 110V for the LO heat and sometimes even the drum motor, they now make clothes dryers with a four pole pulg. I always wondered why we didn't do it historically. They want you to run separate all the way to the panel and ground separately into the bus bar so that there is a guaranteed path to ground should the neutral fail or go to ground on the case of the machine.[img]/wwwthreads_images/icons/smile.gif[/img][img]/wwwthreads_images/icons/crazy.gif[/img]

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post #10 of (permalink) Old 01-03-2002, 06:56 PM
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Re: Now I have a couple of 220v welder wiring ?s

Only one minor correction camo_trash, the neutral and the ground connect only at the ENTRANCE panel. If you should feed a second (or sub) breaker panel from the main (or entrance) panel, you remove the bonding screw from the sub panel.

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