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post #1 of (permalink) Old 08-31-2001, 05:14 PM
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Auto vs Manual

When I do my Doubler, I'm actually thinking of going to a TH400. Though it is longer than my current 465, I think it will be better all around tranny. When I say all around, I mean rock crawling, mud sand, street, etc. I just get tired of the shifting and jerking you get with the 465 4 speed. The only thing that I'm going to miss is that 6.55 granny 1st gear but with the Doubler installed, I doubt I'll miss it. I really liked the reliability of the 465 and the hydraulic clutch but the more I think about it, the 400 auto seems like a better choice. I already have a 400 (rebuilt) sitting in my garage. Should I go with the Auto or keep the manual? I can't decide!

Shawn
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post #2 of (permalink) Old 08-31-2001, 05:52 PM
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Re: Auto vs Manual

keep the 465.
thats what Ive got and like you said the granny gears awseome, expecaily when your in 4 low picking your way through the rocks. form what Ive ssen its also bullet proof, with 22ok on it its still going strong, Ive never even heard about the 465 trannies dieing. some must have but I think they hold up better than most autos.

I guess its a toss up between haveing a smooth 400 or haveing a kinda PITA 465 that will last forever but is very slow shifting and jerky. but the first gears great.


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post #3 of (permalink) Old 08-31-2001, 06:09 PM
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Re: Auto vs Manual

I know the 465 are bullet proof. Here's a true story that really happened when I was 17.

Had a 1970 2wd pickup that had the 465 4 speed. A friend and I were working on it. I was changing out the carb while he changed the oil. Instead of draining the engine oil, he drained the tranny oil (DUH) and proceeded to fill the engine with 5 quarts of 10/40. The next day I had to leave for a 120 mile trip. I couldn't figure out why my engine was smoking so bad and spewing oil. I thought maybe he added too much oil since the dipstick read 2" above full. I drained some oil and proceeded not even thinking about the situation. The tranny got to be pretty loud when I shoved it in 3rd but 4th was ok. 120 miles later, I finally figured what he did and I thought the tranny was toast. I added more 80/90 to the tranny and it never had a problem after that. It was like nothing had happened to it. I was sold on those trannies after that incident!

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post #4 of (permalink) Old 08-31-2001, 06:45 PM
 
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Re: Auto vs Manual

Shawn don't do this to me. I have a 465 for my Willys cause of all the things you said about it and you had it in the rodent. Now your switching to Auto! Doh. I have always had autos in the past. Is this 465 going to be a major PITA? I can drive a stick just fine. How much does a heavily built 400 go for? And will it handle my engine? Approx. 740 hp according to desktop dyno?

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post #5 of (permalink) Old 08-31-2001, 07:17 PM
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Re: Auto vs Manual

Willys
the 465 will not be a major PITA there just not very smooth, you will have little if no matanice required after the initail install. the only thing you may have to replace is the clutch, but even they can last up 60k but that depends on the driver. theses trannies arent made for comfort theyre made to last and they do it, some forever.

I wont replace my 465 for as long as I have this truck, another good reason to keep the 465 is that its got a castiroin houseing compared to the others aluminum houseins wcih are weaker.
If I rem right your dropping in a motor with outrages power and if it was me I wouldnt trust a whole lot of other tranies to stand up to it.
the only thing is you wont be able to shift as fast as the guy in mustang, but its an offroad truck so that shouldnt be a downfall


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post #6 of (permalink) Old 08-31-2001, 07:39 PM
 
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Re: Auto vs Manual

I'm probably going to be in the minority on this subject, but I like the auto. A 400 can handle tons of abuse if kept cool. The biggest problem I have with running an auto is coming to a stop on an obstacle when I let off the gas. Most of the time it could have been prevented by just paying a bit more attention to my driving. I will say I've broken a lot less parts with the auto. in you're case I don't think that's too much of a problem. Like you said, you'll have the Doubler in there to keep you're crawl ratio down so that won't be a problem. Hell they cant be too bad they put an auto in the sniper and it does pretty well.
I'm going to stop there because it sounds like I'm trying to talk you into it. You've got a great tranny and I can see you're pain in trying to decide to swap.
Good luck man


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post #7 of (permalink) Old 08-31-2001, 08:08 PM
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Re: Auto vs Manual

Well I like the Auto. The 400 uses alot of power but I guess you got plenty. I am not that cordinated to work a hand throttle , brake and clutch all at the same time and listen to the spotter. My worry with the auto is they dont compression brake with the engine stalled. This happended to me, Pre spring loaded seats, Lost brake vac and it was a bad scene. Lucky me there was a nice bolder to swing into and break my fall. I only goto to TN twice a year so most of the truck time is spent rotting in back yard with some mud. The auto works good for me. Good luck.


"Bubba Tub" 1977 K-10 350,Th350,Np203 D60/14ff 4.56's Detroit Rear. 7" lift, 39.5/16.5 Swamper TSL's.
post #8 of (permalink) Old 08-31-2001, 10:31 PM
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Re: Auto vs Manual

Shawn- I would just keep the 456. It will never give you problems as you already know!!! and with a double on it yet your low range will be down to what....under 100:1 or something? For your aplication with the K5's short WB there is a huge advantage of running a trany thats only 12" long instead of one thats almost 30". Add a doubler to the works and you may be up to 30" with the trany and the 2-Tcases.

Well, Im sure you know all about my points in this post but I just thought I would remind you about them incase you forgot[img]/wwwthreads_images/icons/wink.gif[/img]

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post #9 of (permalink) Old 08-31-2001, 11:09 PM
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Re: Auto vs Manual

Well, I see both siede of this but I'd have to say auto personally and overall.

The sm465 will last forever and a day true, but the clutch won't, no big deal though. It's tough and has the LOW first gear. The main thing I would be concerned about is compression breaking with the manual. Only because I read the GM truck owners bible and he preached it left and right, and does have a good point. The bad thing is the extra attention and effort going into the thing. Pedal, stick, gear, pedal, pedal, gas, gas, break, hit, whack, kaboom, crap! Its another thing to distract you. You may be able to handle it but good god I cant pay attention as is.

The auto is my choice and I'll go through with it as I have explained the manual. I just got a th400. I love it. I got mine rebuilt from an off roader tranny guy for 600 with an np205. Performance builds hover arond 900. It can also be made with a low 3.00 (not exact) first gear. Tough as hell. I have a shift kit in mine and it works very well, keeps it in first a bit longer. The tranny guy I was talking too said he never see's them break except from impact, never wear or straight breakage. I didnt notice a bit of power eaten up from the th400, maybe its cause my 700r4 was acting up, but maybe not. I also had a 3 mpg jump in gas mialage with my 32's. In fact I love it to death. No paying attention there! The downsides are obvios, heat for one. I had a 26,000 gvw cooler put on for free (tranny man kicks ass!) and it keeps her cool. Maybe invest in a pan too. It has no overdrive, but niether did the sm465. It'd be nicer in mud and sand becaus eits just hammer down and go.

I've noticed a treand in off roading. More fender trimming to fit big tires with less lift, big axles, and automatics. It's a hard choice but that's my opinion. I say go for it.

Final Words - It all comes down to a matter of personal preferance, conveinance, and application.

GO AUTO! (hee hee)

1978 K20, 355, TH 400, NP 205, D44, 14FF, 7" Lift, 36" TSL Radials
post #10 of (permalink) Old 08-31-2001, 11:33 PM
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Re: Auto vs Manual

I thin it does take a good driver to realy wheel a manual, but Ill bet it makes ya that much better. Another thing is that when your in those low low gears crawling over stuff. you pretty much just use the brake and gas and kinda just let the truck go over it .
with my truck in ganny first gear and 4low I can start out just by letting out the clutch, without touching the go pedal. it even works on mild grades. so there not that bad at. and i like how I can go down a hill were the trucks close to vertical and itl just crawl down with out touching the brakes

thats just my opion on the 465 Ive never owned a auto and have only drove trucks with autos a few times, thats kinda why Im towards the man cause I now jack about the driveng chacteristecs of the autos


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