Reality of SAS, one man's story - Off-Road Forums & Discussion Groups
Ford 67-96 F-Series, 78-96 Bronco All discussions of 67-96 F-Series Trucks and 78-96 Broncos

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of (permalink) Old 08-22-2003, 10:27 PM Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 2,508
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
 
Reality of SAS, one man\'s story

We've got another thread covering flex, and we all pretty much know the advantages to be gained by pulling the TTB and putting a solid axle under the front. But, some often wonder why you would ever go D44 SAS if you're going to do this at all. The answer is as follows. This is from my perspective. Someone who has put money into the current lift, including dual lockers. So the choice to do SAS, and how heavy duty, may change if you are still stock and know you wish to go all out:

D60 swap in front. [img]images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]
This is an 8 lug axle.
Unless you are BurnedBronco, expect to pay $1000
locker, ARB like I have now, $700
Gears, ? likely yes, the axle may have 4.10's but due to tires (read on) I will likely have to invest here too. $200
Misc. parts $300 (when customizing, there are always extras, so find a good junkyard.

Rear 10.25 to match the 8 lug front. This swap is silly without the doing the rear axle too. $250
Locker $550
Gears $200
Misc. $150, may not be that much here.
Total $3350
Less selling my good stuff, maybe $700 (don't forget I now have dual lockers, they would be worth something to someone.)
=
$2650

But wait, I forgot. Now that I have my beefy axles, I need new rims, $300, and tires...38x 12.5 on 8's? $900

+$1200 but wait, I forgot, I need to yank the sawzall out now, or look at maybe a bit of body lift, maybe $150

$4000 [img]images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img] [img]images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] [img]images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]
No D60 for Markie!

_____________________________-

Hmmm, let's try this again.
D44 solid up front, $125
No locker needed, swap my ARB over
No re-gear, since I would only move very slightly in tire size, maybe 36's.
Misc. Costs, $250, coils, towers? or leafs?

Rear...no change needed
no new rims

=$375 [img]images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]
What's gained though?
Trail performance, see other posts
ARTICULATION, see other posts
1 less u joint, no more wet noodle
can upgrade now or later to aftermarket axleshafts and maybe even CTM's for strength.
This would make running 36's/37's? a bit more comfortable from a reliability standpoint. Taller 35's or 36's (with a little trimming) would fit with no issues, no added lift. Could even take just a bit of the money saved, say a couple hundred, and look at welding the 8.8 axle tube-to-pumkin, maybe look at that c clip elmininator kit(still don't know if that is ok for offroad), and aftermarket shafts.

I know which is stronger.
No one needs to point that out.

But sometimes the reality of any one person's situation just does not warrant the big stuff. I honestly don't believe I will ever crave more than a 35-36" tire (x 12.5 on 8" wheel no wide tires/wheels for me either), unlike some of my buddies here.

So, there are two valid paths that can be taken. You just need to know what the ultimate goal will be.


TheJuice is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of (permalink) Old 08-23-2003, 12:23 AM
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,090
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
 
Re: Reality of SAS, one man\'s story

ohh, you need to add atleast another $200 for each one ton axle in the misc parts catorgory! brake parts, seals, paint, lillt crap adds up!
front D60 hubs $150! bearing kit for the R&P is $153 with $218 gears!
[bleep] adds up!
i will have to invest about $1200 in my d60 next week to make it ready.
$150 hubs
$500 detroit
$218 gears
$153 bearings
$40 U joints
$60 rotors
$90 calipers
but i have $800 in D44 parts for sale minus the gears, housing and knuckles(all i am saving)


also, and ID pic. D60 on stands, the stupid 44 laying on the ground
BurnedBronco is offline  
post #3 of (permalink) Old 08-23-2003, 03:05 AM
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 264
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
 
Re: Reality of SAS, one man\'s story

[img]images/graemlins/goodpost.gif[/img] Interesting post Juice, you make a good point. Does this mean there is a D44 SAS in your future?
mobyguzzer is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of (permalink) Old 08-23-2003, 03:27 AM Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 2,508
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
 
Re: Reality of SAS, one man\'s story

Thanks for setting me straight there Burned.
The misc. category is always the one that gets ya.

MobyG...well, logically, that is MY next step. But, it may never happen. If my TTB survives with the mods I have done, I won't bother. For the minor amount of money though, it is tempting. That's the point. In my case, it is vastly more tempting than a D60 swap, as Burned helps me prove all the more by notating my incorrect math in the D60 misc. category. Now of course, I could alleviate all that misc. dough by striking it rich at the junkyard like Burned did (yeah right, my flying cow's do in any minute, so I won't hold my breath), but I'm just showing the average expected $$ outlay here.
TheJuice is offline  
post #5 of (permalink) Old 08-23-2003, 04:23 PM
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 2,360
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
 
Re: Reality of SAS, one man\'s story

I am in 99% agreement wirth Juice here, im just not sure which suspension type he'd run, but if and when i do a SAS, it will be with a leaf-sprung Dana44. I dont see the need to run 38" tires on a daily driver, infact, i doubt id go over 36", so its not like id have to worry about breaking it, but id definitely do it for the added stability on/off road. Maybe one day ill be able to save up all the parts, take a week off from work and do it, but until then its just a dream.
reptillikus is offline  
post #6 of (permalink) Old 08-23-2003, 08:57 PM
Shilo
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Reality of SAS, one man\'s story

First off, Burned is right: it's the misc category that'll kill you more than anything.

Second, I'm not gonna argue this one. Everyone perceives it differently, and people include costs based upon these perceptions. If you've already dumped a bunch of money into D44 diff internals, that's no one's fault but your own. You can't blame that on the D60, the D60 didn't make you do it. Burned (NOT trying to argue with you Burned) included the cost of a Detroit into the cost of "getting his 60 ready." I wouldnt'; if you want a front locker, you need to buy a front locker for WHATEVER axle you got. Etc, etc.

I've had discussions similar to this one 20x in the past, dont' have the energy to go into it again. You guys know what you want to build, you know what you have to spend. Have fun. I know what I want to build, and that's all that matters.

I will say my buddy Nathan is the smartest guy I've seen yet. He realized from the beginning the stock setup was not worth any investment. He 'wheeled the snot out of his '87 Bronco STOCK, waiting for the perfect donor truck to come along - - - and come along it did: a '97 F350, rolled by a local oil field company, for $1700.

Attached Images
File Type: jpg 1174287-Nathan 053.jpg (75.3 KB, 10 views)
post #7 of (permalink) Old 08-23-2003, 09:10 PM
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,090
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
 
Re: Reality of SAS, one man\'s story

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
included the cost of a Detroit into the cost of "getting his 60 ready." I wouldnt'

[/ QUOTE ]
i agree, i consider it a cost though since i need to have a locked front axle. it may not be an extra cost, but its still a cost when you go from a locked 44 to a locked 60....
BurnedBronco is offline  
post #8 of (permalink) Old 08-23-2003, 09:16 PM
Shilo
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Reality of SAS, one man\'s story

NOW you could argue I think Nathan is smart 'cause his setup is now near identical to mine: '87=91 Bronco, 10.25 rear with shackle flip, D60 front, leaf sprung. But it's what Nathan DIDN'T do that makes him smart: he avoided incrementalism. I lifted the TTB, then I did the 10.25 swap, then shackle flip, then 8 lug TTB conversion (what a waste of time and money), then D60 front.

Nathan did also rebuild the EFI 460 and drop it in his Bronco, but that expense is purely optional and certainly not relevant to Juice's original post.

Now, for the cost of what I suspect most people have into a "quality" TTB lift with ext rad arms, possibly Superrunner steering, etc, Nathan has a very 'wheelable rig that'll go places with open diffs that TTB will hardly do with one locker. The donor rig gave him EVERYTHING: brackets for shackle flip, front leafs, hangers, and axles to name a few. In literally 4 months time Nathan's rig arrived at the point that took me 4 years to get to because of incrementalism.




If you've already dumped money into your existing setup, that's your problem. Life's a bitch, don't cry over spilt milk, don't throw good money after bad, etc etc, blah blah. Don't blame it on the equipment, blame it on the person who opened his wallet.

If I knew then what I know now I'd do one of two things: 3" body lift on the Bronco, 33's and maybe a rear LockRite until I could do what Nathan did. OR just buy an F350, remove the bed, lift it cheap and go 'wheeling.

Rant off.

But Juice you don't need new tires necessarily, I'm running 15" on my D60 front as is Nathan.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 1174298-Nathan22.jpg (89.9 KB, 6 views)
post #9 of (permalink) Old 08-23-2003, 09:18 PM
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,090
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
 
Re: Reality of SAS, one man\'s story

oh, im not arguing. i had planned on staying with a d44, that is until the d60 fell into my hands....
BurnedBronco is offline  
post #10 of (permalink) Old 08-23-2003, 10:10 PM
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 4,011
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
 
Re: Reality of SAS, one man\'s story

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
You can't blame that on the D60, the D60 didn't make you do it.

[/ QUOTE ] LOL! [img]images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] That's funny Shilo. I think what most of us end up doing is what comes naturally. We open up a 4x4 mag and say gee that looks neat, then start looking for a project rig. Once said rig is found in our case a FS Bronco we think to ourselves now I need big tires to traverse the wild unknown. Alot of us started this process before we found this place and as a result got started in incrementalism or whatever Shilo was callin' it. [img]images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] We got our lift, tires, lockers and then realize to go even bigger we have to scrap everything we have done to get what we really want. lol. I agree with The Juice and Shilo for different reasons. I can see myself salvaging a solid D44 and utilizing the parts I've already spent money on and possibly even getting a locker to go with it. I still plan on going step by step for the 1ton stuff too. I'll probably go the same route as Nathan and buy a wrecked 1 ton as a parts truck. (I have to salvage my Bronco Parts truck first though. My wife put here foot down. Only one parts truck in the yard at a time! lol ) Take Care! NORM
BigNorm is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Off-Road Forums & Discussion Groups forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome