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post #1 of (permalink) Old 05-30-2003, 03:00 PM Thread Starter
 
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351 Mass Air

Could anyone tell me what years and models that this motor came in? I'm thiking of using this setup as a base for my Stroker project. Here's the only writeup I've found so far on the topic. 406 Injected project The guy who built this motor put alot of cash and time into it. I'm hoping to use more stock parts than he did. It looks like a good setup even if it will take alot of time and effort to see the end result. Whudya all think?
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post #2 of (permalink) Old 05-30-2003, 03:45 PM
 
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Re: 351 Mass Air

Sounds good to me! My 90 302 came with Speed Density. I think they changed to mass air in 91 or 92. My 302 was my first adventure in fuel injection and later model engine. when I got my shortblock, I labeled everything I took off with tape and marker. Lots of shtuff! It did not help my confidence when my engine builder looked under the hood, and pointed to all the crap and said "That's why I started doing just short and long blocks". He doesn't do installations anymore. Anyhow with all the labeling, it started when I first turned it over.

I suggest using Desktop Dyno to pick your parts before you buy them! Would a $2,200 powerdyne supercharger on a stock 351 with mass air be less expensive than a new rotating assembly, cam, heads, intake, etc., etc.? You would get better gas mileage over time as well.
I ran a stock 351 with the powerdyne blower on Desktop dyno. It came up with 400 ft.lbs. of torque and 304 horses! Add big valve/runner heads and a mild cam = 570 ft.lbs. torque and 450 horses! How does that compare to the 406? You would have to change the mas air meter to be calibrated with new 30lb. injectors whatever way you went. Been there done that. I've got a blown 302 with heads, cam, mass air conversion, 30lb injectors, small tube headers, 3 inch single exhaust, & K&N intake.
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post #3 of (permalink) Old 05-30-2003, 04:07 PM
 
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Re: 351 Mass Air

Blow don't suck!
More food for thought. Let's say you do 10,000 miles per year get 8 mpg with the 406 that's 1,250 gallons a year X 1.60/gal. = $2,000. Blow a 351 get 10 mpg, 1,000 gallons X 1.60/gal. = $1,600/yr. Save $400/yr. on gas! Savings only get better with more miles. This is how I justified the blower. I think the 406 may do worse than 2 mpg less.(Based on my results actual results may vary with lead footageness, gearing, altitude, attitude, the way you hold your mouth, and overall wheelage, author not responsable for numbskull low tech red neck screwing-up their stuff based upon this post, author not implying that you are a low tech redneck, any similarities to existing persons is by sheer accident and should not be taken as inflicting harm upon one reputation).

The blower has been very reliable and gives you good low end torque. I broke a belt to it once because of improper alignment. The engine still runs fine without the blower.
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post #4 of (permalink) Old 05-30-2003, 05:15 PM
 
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Re: 351 Mass Air

My 95 is speed density. If memory serves, Cali's got MAF in 95, and everyone else for 96 on 5.8 motors.

Now, Blown, I agree with what you are saying. It is lots o bang for the buck. Much less guess work, Bignorm. But maybe that would take the fun out of it?

It still will be expensive. Blower alone around $2k.

My thing is, what fer? If you are getting into this thing alot, your mileage will really suffer. Bigblock or blower, or built 351, what for on a trail rig?

If I were going to mud bog and needed to spin big tires, yes. going to the drags, yes. Wanting to race the new Hemi dodge truck yes. Towing, yes. But on a trail rig, why? Maybe not even towing, my stock ford speed density 351 had no problem towing that big ol bronco with 429 up some steep hills and back to camp. I went all weekend on the same gas. I bet those built, and/or high cube motors went down to the station at least once. I like the relaibility of the stock setup.

For a builup Norm, and this is only my opinion, so chuck it if you wish...

351W rebuilt, maybe bored if needed, to factory spec. I know you want EFI, so the question here is what is simplist, best use of money, and/or most reliable, aftermarket throttle body or factory MAF? I have a feeling the aftermarket will be way cheaper, but can you dial it in and make it reliable?

Maybe some of the engine guys on here can strike me down, but I don't like the sounds of aluminum heads on iron block for a trail truck. I know new gasket materials tend to keep problems here to a minimum, and there are a number of factory trucks out there now running iron block/aluminum head, but, if not done correctly and carefully, this could be very painful in the long run. Finally, when I talk reliability I am also thinking longevity. That writeup mentioned 200k as a possibility for this motor. Well, the strength and quality of the compenents might allow that for sure. But, working together, he was not off to a very good start, and may be a bit optimistic here. Remember too, this guy was having an engine shop help with all this. He must have had one heck of a bill. [img]images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img]
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post #5 of (permalink) Old 05-30-2003, 06:11 PM
 
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Re: 351 Mass Air

LMAO -

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
numbskull low tech red neck screwing-up their stuff

[/ QUOTE ]

HEY - I resemble that remark ... that whole remark! [img]images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img]


</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
any similarities ... should not be taken as inflicting harm upon one(s) reputation

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh, okay [img]images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] ... heck I do enough damage on my own !! [img]images/graemlins/40BEER.gif[/img]
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post #6 of (permalink) Old 05-30-2003, 06:37 PM
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Re: 351 Mass Air

oh come on, if he wanted to be rational he would drop a 4banger in there and go to p225 tires but what's the fun in that? [img]images/graemlins/chairfall.gif[/img]

blowers are just coooool! my brother drives a little (did i mention it's little?) Celica with a 5spd and it's kinda fun but of course people think he's some ricer racer so one day I was riding shotgun with him and we came upon a Lightning in the right lane. I jokingly told my bro to rev it up to intimidate him (right [img]images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]) and as soon as he did that I hear this high pitch whistling noise and I knew what was going to follow that.... nothing but taillights and the sound of a V8 destroying a ricermobile [img]images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img] [img]images/graemlins/chairfall.gif[/img] It was one of the greatest moments of my life, and now I really really want a blower sitting on top of my 351 [img]images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

to make a long story short, forget the rest... just blow me! [img]images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]images/graemlins/40BEER.gif[/img]
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post #7 of (permalink) Old 05-30-2003, 06:43 PM
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Re: 351 Mass Air

oh, btw, has anybody ever considered fabbing their own mounting kit/pulley for a supercharger then just finding one off a big truck or a pull-off from a factory vehicle to mount up? will the mass-air computer handle everything else or is the type/size of blower used important? the kits seem rather $$$ for what you're actually getting (a low pressure air compressor!) [img]images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

dont most of the kits use blowers that originally came on big trucks? seems like i heard that somewhere...
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post #8 of (permalink) Old 05-30-2003, 07:32 PM
 
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Re: 351 Mass Air

Juice is right on both counts Norm.I think 96 (95cal) was mass air.If you want to be practical,you can build a bad azz 351 and stick with the carb.You can even do the 396 stroker and carb set up for cheap.But somehow Norm you don't impress me as a practical kinda guy [img]images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]And that's ok.Just know what you're getting into.Converting to mass air and efi will be expensive and alot of headache.Even guys with modified mass air systems have trouble with drivability sometimes when making mods.If your gonna go with some kind of clevland head set up that just complicates things even more.By the time you work over a clevland head and buy the adapters etc you could almost buy a set of iorn world products heads.If you like a challenge and money is not an issue then go for it.You see the trouble that guy had going from an efi speed density to a modified mas air set up.Then add all the trouble of plumbing in a efi fuel sysytem.If you want to go that route I would suggest finding a 351 mass air truck for a donor parts vehicle.You will need the tank,pump and fuel lines eec and harness,sensors etc.Then you will have to wire all of that in to the existing harness.it's alot of work.

Bill
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post #9 of (permalink) Old 05-31-2003, 12:16 AM Thread Starter
 
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Re: 351 Mass Air

I really am pretty practical and money really is an issue. The more I read the more I'm thinking that my QJet gets me to where I want to be. Maybe I'll just do the 392 (I've always wanted to build a stroker!) with a 750 cfi Qjet. I haven't seen another carb that can compare to a Qjet yet offroad. I still like the cleanliness of Chevy TBI though. [img]images/graemlins/thud.gif[/img]
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post #10 of (permalink) Old 05-31-2003, 01:26 AM
 
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Re: 351 Mass Air

For the money you would spend on an EFI convert you can build one bad azz stroker motor.With the right cam were talking torque monster [img]images/graemlins/burnout.gif[/img]

Bill
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