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post #1 of (permalink) Old 05-09-2003, 04:21 PM Thread Starter
 
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SAS D44 vs 60, leaf or coil?

I'm not ready to do this yet. But I am (and have been) seriously thinking about it for the future. I know what I want to do. Go D44 with Leafs. My reasoning revolves around the basics, cost. I see Biggie Truck has a highpinion D44 from an '79 F150, complete hub to hub for $150. Now, if he happened to be closer, I would probably snatch that up. I am told my gearing and ARB will swap over. If true, I would have my axle, with the gearing and locker ready to go. The driveshaft should be a bolt on. Not sure about the hubs and spindle. I would actually like to be able to mount my ABS sensor and toner on to this new axle. That would probably require a bit of work. Before popping under the truck, I would upgrade the shafts to Warn Alloy ($300?)and use the stockers as spares. I would also maybe get a pair of CTM's ($300). I would think that would be a pretty good setup for my plan of continuing to use 35's. Any opinion here? I just can't see going 60 in my case. The added money needed not only for the axle, but for the locker, well.....

Now, the big question:

coil vs. leaf suspension. What I am after is simplicity and strength. I reviewed (again) Brian Soderblum's D44/coil install, and it seems overly complicated with all the trackbar and radius arm BS. Leafs I feel can work on the newer Broncos with "accordian" front boxed frame section. I took a few basic measurments and one could run leafs all the way up and connecting to the front flat part of the frame (boxed)in front of that rippled section. One could always reinforce that area. It might actually get reinforced through a winch mount attached there. At the rear, where the current radius arm attaches to the frame, would be apx. 59-62" in total length, with the axle roughly in the middle of that. The shackle would be mounted at the back, so it would be wise to move the axle forward of it's current position. The leaf presents the challenge of attachment to the frame where it won't obstruct the tires. The frame also appears to not be just a simple straight line through this area, but curves in or out in a couple places. This would be the biggest hurdle though. No track bar, no radius arms. Steering, well, not sure if problems might be enountered there with a spring over setup. I would not think so. Maybe this would be more difficult because the D44's usually were under coil setups? Opinions?

I think most folks generally feel that coils ride smoother. I think either suspension option will produce equally good results off-road. To me, it just seems that the leaf idea is the easier to fab up, if any of this could be considered easy [img]images/graemlins/cussing.gif[/img]
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post #2 of (permalink) Old 05-09-2003, 07:36 PM
 
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Re: SAS D44 vs 60, leaf or coil?

I think the dana 44 set up you are planning would be more than strong enough but I have no clue on the sas. I know a guy that got a sas done on his raider and his pitman arm hits the leafs and limits his steering under any kind of articulation but I am sure that can be fixed. There seem to be alot of sas going on over at www.fullsizebronco.com they seem to have a lot of knowledge over there maybe you could earch there or have crazed post the questions for you
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post #3 of (permalink) Old 05-09-2003, 08:30 PM
 
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Re: SAS D44 vs 60, leaf or coil?

Tony, youre talking about Lee's Raider.....his problem is that the steering is located outboard of the frame, instead of on the inside like most other trucks.

Juice, that is what i was contemplating while at work today. I am getting rather tired of having to screw around with the blasted TTB. And from what i have read/heard, those TTB gears/lockers are fully compatable in the solid 44s, which makes it even more tempting.
First off i feel i have to point out that youll gain alot of lift by doing this! id expect 6-8" of lift when youre done. Your 35s wont look so big after that!

With the exception of the trac-bar, i think going coil-sprung would be easier to do, but going leaf-sprung would have its advantages. First and foremost, youd be all set to go once you finally decide to go one-ton [img]images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]
I like the idea of not having a trac-bar to have to create, especially with that damn TTB crossmember under there taking up important space. Unless you want to get a 78-9 xmember and swap it in its place? (dunno if that will even work [img]images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]).

But with Chrome moly shafts, and beefy ujoints you could probably get that solid44 to hold up to a set of 37" MTRs [img]images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]
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post #4 of (permalink) Old 05-09-2003, 09:34 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: SAS D44 vs 60, leaf or coil?

6-8" of lift, I am not interested in. It would sit right where it sits now. You probably are right on the Raider, and that is a way thinner vehicle as well. I don't think I will run into that problem.

With the leafs, I would never move on to one ton axles. Just not happening with me. I like when I wheel with vehicles with bigger more agressive tires than me, and they struggle to go through the same trails (if not setup as I am).

The whole crossmember deal will be interesting. I would like to do away with it, but in the end, will probably end up leaving it as it.

Yes, the front would probably be ok with decent driving, locked, and 37's. But, that defeats my purpose. By doing this I am looking to really create a decent margin of "mind safety". You never know when something might go, but the more you push the mechanical limits, the more likely you are to break something. A D44 with upgraded axles and joints is not the same thing as a TTB 44. It is just plain more solid. The pumpkin is basically the same, but that is rarely where TTB's run into problems, because it is pretty strong.

This really would be a "final step" for me. I have no interst in super large tires. 37's YES [img]images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]
But I just don't think I will ever head that way. 35's work good for me.
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post #5 of (permalink) Old 05-09-2003, 09:35 PM
 
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Re: SAS D44 vs 60, leaf or coil?

I was contemplating these same issues today Juice. It's funny that you should bring it up. I too enjoy the simplicity/cleanliness of a leaf sprung SAS. I think leaves are much more forgiving when you bash them against rocks as opposed to a Radius arm. Did they make leaf sprung solid axle D44's for the Ford Fullsizes? It would make sense to me that they would have especially in some of the older F250s. Sorry that I'm adding more questions than answers. NORM
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post #6 of (permalink) Old 05-09-2003, 10:57 PM
 
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Re: SAS D44 vs 60, leaf or coil?

Yeah, ~79 150s and 250s had em leave sprung. Or at least i think those were the ones that did. I know some of em did.....Wheres MY2ND78, hes the expert on those years [img]images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Juice....how are you going to get the pumpkin to clear the crossmember with only 4" of lift?
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post #7 of (permalink) Old 05-09-2003, 11:59 PM
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Re: SAS D44 vs 60, leaf or coil?

My brother has a 74 and 75 F250 both of them have leaf sprung Dana 44, the problem with them is that they are eight lug and you would have to change the bolt pattern on the rear axle to make it match.

I think that when I do a SAS it will be leaf sprung it is the easier way IMHO. [img]images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
post #8 of (permalink) Old 05-10-2003, 01:23 AM
 
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Re: SAS D44 vs 60, leaf or coil?

I can tell you for sure that that my 79 F250 was leafs with an 8 lug 44.
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post #9 of (permalink) Old 05-10-2003, 02:18 AM
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Re: SAS D44 vs 60, leaf or coil?

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
6-8" of lift, I am not interested in. It would sit right where it sits now.

[/ QUOTE ]
nope, not if you leave the TTB xmember under there... Zach will tell you, it's just not going to happen. cutting it out and welding in a reinforcement up high shouldn't be a big deal though, and with a leaf/bumper crossmember at the end of the frame rails you should have enough support to hold her together. The geometry of a trac-bar coil setup gets funky at extreme articulation, which is the main reason I want to go leafs on mine. The other reason is that I know I can make it flex because my rear already flexes til the tires hit the bed and it's all stock back there! With some missing links (pinned for road use) and something like those BC Broncos hinge things (also pinned for road use) it would flex with the best of them, and without the body moving sideways like a coil truck will do. Plus, to me, the simplicity just makes it a clear winner as fabbing it will be easier and there's less moving parts.

Any 73-79 F250 should have a leaf sprung D44 with narrow spacing and 8 lugs, which is nice because you can just imagine that having the springs further inward lets the axle torque them more = madd flex [img]images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] The f150's should have coils from 73-79, and I dont think they made 4x4 F350's til 79, and they will have narrow spaced leaf D60's with kingpins... ha, good luck finding one of those! [img]images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]
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post #10 of (permalink) Old 05-10-2003, 09:21 AM
 
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Re: SAS D44 vs 60, leaf or coil?

Yeah, even with 8" of lift, that xmember is still pretty close.....clicky
(gee, i wonder who's truck that is [img]images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img])
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