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post #1 of (permalink) Old 03-15-2001, 11:25 AM Thread Starter
 
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dissappointed

I can honestly say that I am dissappointed in the response to the post by Mr. Dune. I have been here a long time and have sat and listened to people say how they are tired of losing to the greenies and eco-nazis, yet when we have an oppurtunity to boycott a company that was once part of us, there has been little to no participation.

I think it is time that we all stand up and show we mean business. Start the emails, faxes and snail mail!!!! don't stop them until our voices have been heard and heard with a veangence!!!!!!!

Please people, act on this, show that we will not go quietly and that we will fight for what is ours!!!!

Don't let me down....


AirBorn!!
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post #2 of (permalink) Old 03-15-2001, 05:56 PM
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Re: dissappointed

gimme some links for emails to the company and i will start sendin them...

WWWaaaaazzzzzuuuuuuuup!!!!!!!
post #3 of (permalink) Old 03-15-2001, 06:07 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: dissappointed

refer to Mr. Dunes post for all valid information...

send email to [email protected]
also try [email protected]


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post #4 of (permalink) Old 03-20-2001, 10:55 PM
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Re: dissappointed

Ok, now I know I have not been the most active member on this board lately, but even though i support mr dune and will never buy one of the products made by this company (mainly because a $1.50 bottle of bottled water does me good and fits in my pocket... compared to the price of their products, although I guess I can find a use for them.) i just want to say this:
In my eight + years of off road riding I have not run into one person who has anything made by or like anything camleback makes. In the one hike I took in that time without any type of bikes(and in another country), more than one person had a camleback on, and all who did were tree loving, extreem pro enviroment, @ssHellolioes.
Now, thinking about this, maybe we are not the main reason this product was made, and maybe a ban will not work against them, but I will try as hard as anybody else who goes with this.
I also realize that their move was ment as a marketing tool for their main market, which may not be us offroaders, and as in all politics it does not make everybody happy, in this case it is anybody who would read this.
People have to also realize that if someone nobody knows or cares about does something agenst someone else, it is only normal for that person not to care, or everybody not to care, this is what airborn has a problem with, we all should care, and do what we can to fight people who want to take land away from us to ride on. If we don't, noboby will have a place to ride. I live on Long Island, and there is no legal riding area on it at all, not fun for those who do ride. I would hate to have it like this everywhere.
In the end I guess that I have no real point exept that I'm glad that this wasn't the camleback ski resort that caused this outrage, because I am going there this weekend, and I do not ski well enough to cancell the trip and go elsewhere.

ktmbk
83 ATC 250r, 84 atc 250r (parting out), ATC 185s, 85 Ktm 350mxc
post #5 of (permalink) Old 03-21-2001, 12:25 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: dissappointed

ktmbk, first off, I and many of my buddies use camelbak products and thoroughly enjoyed the product.

I find it hard to believe that you have never run into anyone that likes the product in 8 years of riding...I find that a bit farfetched. I am not a tree lovingm extreem pro environment, @ssHelloliioes, and I use them, so would you like to restate that comment?

I sense alot of hostility in this post and that is not what this is about. This post was initially to get people to inform camelbak of the bad move they made and rectify.
Camelbak initially came up with this product to make it easier for people to be hydrated in hard activities, which includes enduros and the like.

You are correct that the I dont care attitude bothers me, and you are right, that is the attitude that will lose our land even faster.

The one thing I do have to say however, is this, don't make assumptions on something or someone until the facts are out. That is a very very bad way to look at things and will cause alot more damage in the long run then people realize...


AirBorn!!
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United we stand..Divided we fall..LETS UNITE!
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post #6 of (permalink) Old 03-21-2001, 12:26 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: dissappointed

I talked to Mike Jeraci of CamelBak PR services and there was a release made by the president of Camelbak dealing with this specifically. Camelbak has made some very stupid moves in the past, this one included, and he flat out told me that they took a VERY hard spanking. Mike was a very nice guy and very candid with me in my phone interview. I asked him what their stance was specifically and they are neutral in all aspects. As a company they have maintained that ideal, with the exception of a mishap in 1997 (the advertising in sierra magazine) and this instance with Sky Goerge and his being quoted on the orca site.

Mike was able to tell me that they have set up a new policy within the company regarding this and they are no longer allowed to do things in this nature again without severe repercussions. He also told me that Sky was repromanded, to what degree he would not disclose.

I asked him why in all of the advertisements, it is pushed more towards the non motorized users, and his response was "That is being rectified as we speak".

He also assured me, that while they can not undo the damage over nite, their are major changes happening internally as well as changes that we as users and former users will see.

I was very blunt and told him that we have heard this before, and in his candor and honesty, he stated-"The last time we had an occurance, we did not get spanked the way we did this time. Our hienies, for lack of a better term, are quite red from the spanking we took and we are making sure this does not happen again."

I am not going to go out and purchase new product right this minute, but I will watch them closely and see if they back up what they have stated with this. It will be interesting to say the least.

Just wanted to give you an update on this situation.

AirBorn!!
The good Lord giveth and the Eco-Nazi's Taketh away!
United we stand..Divided we fall..LETS UNITE!
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post #7 of (permalink) Old 03-21-2001, 10:47 PM
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Re: dissappointed

I am very glad to hear that camleback took the heat for this and are trying to keep similar mistakes from occuring again, maybe they will succeed, maybe not.
I never, in any way, ment to insult anybody who owns this product, I simply stated the facts as I see them... and as i said have only seen the one group of people with camleback products, and that is what I thought about those people, i never implied the same about everybody who has one. sorry to those who took it the wrong way.
If you look back to the origional post by Mr Dune you will see that he said that he will no longer use camleback products along with sending a letter of dissapointment, which means he is pretty much boycotting them. Air born is discussing dissapointment in the lack of interest in this, a feeling i share. However with my education baised half in marketing, and having gone to a school strongly baised on enviromental issues (Marine Bio is most popular study), I have learned to take issues such as this looking at both sides, and I suggested that perhaps us offroaders are not their main market, which may or may not be true.
I do know that giving support to a bill or group by a company is in the end not a matter of pure charity, but a marketing strategy that is ment to create product and/or company awareness in a nitch market, in most cases their main market or one with the most potential. Don't think it was not thought out, and if the case is that it truly was not thought out I would worry about the long term duribility of the company because of it's poor distribution of reasources. BUT READING THE DIRTBIKE BOARD there is a post that says that maybe this was all caused by a missquoted employee, i hope this is true and this is "a big to do about nothing".

Now, Airborn, Why would you find it hard to believe that i never met anybody who rides who owns a camleback product? I find that 95% of the people I run into have never saw an atv? is that hard to believe also? for some it's that toy they saw in last months issue of playboy in the "suggested gifts" page.
I do find conflicting views in your posts on this subject, you start by saying you want to boycott them - a very strong against, then tell me they are great??? at least I find that odd, maybe you just had a change of heart.
And no, i do not include you in that group of pro enviromental people, and thank you for accually contacting the company to clear up some issues, if we all were so willing to go that far, offroaders as a group would be better off.
Tell me, if you dont mind, where do you mainly ride? i ride in an area that varies in terrain from hard pack to sand next to each other, the terrain is mostly forest, and since pine trees seem to thrive in sand, i ride in an area known as the pine barrens. I am lucky enough to have acess to 15 sq mile's with only a few road crossings in them, in fact it's hard to go 5 miles without hitting a major road. I also ride in local sand pits and old quarries. The people i ride with and meet on the trail either race their bikes and are out for practice, are just out for a quick ride and to hang out, or to trailride (as I do). In most cases fresh gas, food, and drinks are less than a 3 min. ride away... weather it's kept in a truck, bought from a store, or tucked away on the side of a trail it's there, and most of us are willing to share our supplies with others, a rarity in New York. I find no need for a camleback in this situation, and without starting a war, would like you to realize this also.
In my area there are no deserts, and no open areas to ride in. The closest thing to people who ride cross country are a few older guys on duelsports who ride to an area, through it, and then on to the next. They wear full gear, but no camlebacks, strange, kinda like everybody else i've seen around here.
Now concider that it may just be a regional thing, or it can be the fact that there are no public legal riding areas on long island, and those of us who ride here do not use gear if it is not needed if just to help with mobility. I have not seen any camleback products in local motorcycle shops, just in mail order catalogs. Most of the riders i found do not have extra cash to throw at a camleback, those who do have that financial ability to buy one usually complain to me that they are too busy doing other things and are unable to ride, and are also thinking about getting out of the sport.
So Is it possible to run into people who do not use camleback products, in my case yes....
i am sorry to make this post so long.


ktmbk
83 ATC 250r, 84 atc 250r (parting out), ATC 185s, 85 Ktm 350mxc
post #8 of (permalink) Old 03-21-2001, 11:56 PM
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Re: dissappointed

I am very glad to hear that camleback took the heat for this and are trying to keep similar mistakes from occuring again, maybe they will succeed, maybe not.
I never, in any way, ment to insult anybody who owns this product, I simply stated the facts as I see them... and as i said have only seen the one group of people with camleback products, and that is what I thought about those people, i never implied the same about everybody who has one. sorry to those who took it the wrong way.
If you look back to the origional post by Mr Dune you will see that he said that he will no longer use camleback products along with sending a letter of dissapointment, which means he is pretty much boycotting them. Air born is discussing dissapointment in the lack of interest in this, a feeling i share. However with my education baised half in marketing, and having gone to a school strongly baised on enviromental issues (Marine Bio is most popular study), I have learned to take issues such as this looking at both sides, and I suggested that perhaps us offroaders are not their main market, which may or may not be true.
I do know that giving support to a bill or group by a company is in the end not a matter of pure charity, but a marketing strategy that is ment to create product and/or company awareness in a nitch market, in most cases their main market or one with the most potential. Don't think it was not thought out, and if the case is that it truly was not thought out I would worry about the long term duribility of the company because of it's poor distribution of reasources.

Now, Airborn, Why would you find it hard to believe that i never met anybody who rides who owns a camleback product? Tell me, if you dont mind, where do you mainly ride? i ride in an area that varies in terrain from hard pack to sand next to each other, the terrain is mostly forest, and since pine trees seem to thrive in sand, i ride in an area known as the pine barrens. I am lucky enough to have acess to 15+ sq mile's with only a few road crossings in them. I also ride in local sand pits and old quarries. The people i ride with and meet on the trail either race their bikes and are out for practice, are just out for a quick ride and to hang out, or to trailride (as I do). In most cases fresh gas, food, and drinks are less than a 3 min. ride away... weather it's kept in a truck, bought from a store, or tucked away on the side of a trail it's there, and most of us are willing to share our supplies with others, a rarity in New York.
In my area there are no deserts, and no open areas to ride in. The closest thing to people who ride cross country are a few older guys on duelsports who ride to an area, through it, and then on to the next. They wear full gear, but no camlebacks, strange, kinda like everybody else i've seen around here.
Now concider that it may just be a regional thing, or it can be the fact that there are no public legal riding areas on long island, and those of us who ride here do not use gear if it is not needed if just to help with mobility. I have not seen any camleback products in local motorcycle shops, just in mail order catalogs. Most of the riders i found do not have extra cash to throw at a camleback, those who do have that financial ability to buy one usually complain to me that they are too busy doing other things and are unable to ride, and are also thinking about getting out of the sport.
So Is it possible to run into people who do not use camleback products, in my case yes....
i am sorry to make this post so long.


ktmbk
83 ATC 250r, 84 atc 250r (parting out), ATC 185s, 85 Ktm 350mxc
post #9 of (permalink) Old 03-22-2001, 01:40 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: dissappointed

ktmbk, I guess with all the riding I have done in the past, I have run unto many that have used camelbak or other type of hydration equipment.

You stated my views changed, well, no they didn't really. Yes I was very irritated at the company for the position they took with the whole orca thing. But I can not deny that they have a very good product. It has been very strong as far as accepting abuse. Will I be purchasing another camelbak? Not for quite a long time, I am still feeling a little sore in the a$$ from this shot and I like many others will not spend my money there until they have PROVEN beyond any possible doubt that they are not taking sides. A big part of their market is enduro and off road racers. This is a fact.

As far as where I ride...I ride in a very rural area and we can go 30-40-even 50 miles on a run without near by stores. We usually will get going at 7am and maybe get back to camp by 6 or 7 in the evening making a stop for gas somewhere along the lines.

I am sorry that you took my comment wrong, I do find it odd that you meet very few riders that have used them or even seen an atv...but then again that could be the geogrophy talking too...here they are VERY big...camelbaks are not real prominant, but there are a number that have them and use them that I know of.

Let me just say that I do like the product, but I can not spend my money on a company that has made these mistakes in the past that hurt my sport as a whole.

They know this and they stated that they will hopefully make ammends...we shall see....




AirBorn!!
The good Lord giveth and the Eco-Nazi's Taketh away!
United we stand..Divided we fall..LETS UNITE!
AirBornBanshee is offline  
post #10 of (permalink) Old 03-22-2001, 06:17 PM
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Re: dissappointed

Seems like maybe we both took each others comment wrong, at least we can work things like that out, I've been on other boards that no one there can do that.
That's one of the things I like about this board over others.
From what I have hear about camleback, the put out good products. If I ever get to do one thing I want, get off the island and go riding in an open area with vast undevelloped miles, maybe i will concider buying a camleback, but not untill they clean up their act.


ktmbk
83 ATC 250r, 84 atc 250r (parting out), ATC 185s, 85 Ktm 350mxc
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