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Got some problems with these YJ springs

990 views 25 replies 15 participants last post by  DougO 
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#1 ·
OK the YJ spring set up is supposed to be the greatest thing since sliced bread & I had though of putting YJ springs on my Zook way before anyone had heard of it so I finally got around to doing it. If I spend a whole day and a fair amount of money on a mod. I'm gonna expect a lot out of it. So here are some issues I have already:

My approach angle is lousy. My front springs stick WAY out there, if I come up against a rock ledge it seems like instead of my bumper hitting first now my springs & shackles will hit

I added a EXTRA leaf with more arch into my rear YJ spring pack because my Zook always seems to sit too low in the back whenever I change to diffent springs. Well, guess what? With the YJs up front it sits higher in the front then out back now, AGAIN by like 2-1/2"!!

With the amount of flex with YJs up front now my front driveshaft hits on the skid plate and on the crossmember when the front end drops down. (this is BEFORE the double shackles even open up!)

For some reason my front drive shaft is now like 4" too short but this could be a differance between the Zook front axle & Toyota front axle that I'm swapping in.

The missing links up front end up RIGHT ON the mounting plate & bolt head for my front bumper.
(my problem because of design of bumper but still another problem)

The missing links seem like they'll make for extra play in the front end which is something I DON'T need.

My shocks all max out before any of my double shackles open up so I need four new shocks or new lowered upper shock mounts.

SO why did I swap these in again??????????? My wife has a totally stock Zook that will go 90% of the places that mine will go with a little mo-jo & driving skill.

So now after I dump hundreds more $$$ & about 30 hours more into the Zook I can show off on RTI ramps....
Wooptie Doo!
 
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#2 ·
I am assuming you have a nonshackle reversed wrangler kit (shackle in front)

my aproch angle is the same as with my lift shackles i have thought of movon my axle forward 2 inches and the springs back 2 inches as well

mine sits level at least within 1/2 inch

i had to install 2 one inch driveline spacersone at each end the one on the transfercase end helps with the clearance of the crossmember

my missing links do add some extra slop but i installed a panhard bar as well when i did the spoa

i have custom upper and lower shock mounts the lowers are on the bottom of the axle the shocks have 13 inches of travel

i have never had mine on a rti ramp it does ride smoother and the added flex is nice it helps make up for lack of lockers or a front one at least and on some ground conditions it makes it more stable
 
#3 ·
Who said that installing Yjs is a easy thing that takes no mods to work??? 1st off, if your driveshaft is too short, then yes it is because the Yj pushed the front in foward and now that you've got yota axles it is even more out there! You have to get a longer driveshaft, period! And if it is hitting the skid plate, then cut a hole or around where it hits! Your shackels will stick out more then before, but that is normal with the set-up you have. I've got the trailtough missing link front and rear and they stick out a little more then a S/R would! And if your mounting bolts, for the missing link, are where your bumper is then cut the mounting plate off the bumpstop for the missing link and weld it to the side of your bumper. This is what I had to do with TT's kit, because I have the wheelers offroad front bumper and it used the same mounting holes as the missing link did. Very easy to make work! (see pic in attachment) About your shocks, of course you will have to get new ones! YJs flex like crazy, and you need to get new shocks so there nothing around that, also take a look at your brake lines, if you have missing links you might need to get longer ones?
And if you don't like the Yj swap, then take it off and sale it to someone that wants one! Its that easy!
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#4 ·
Oh Poo! Listen to you. Waaaa! I'm building a flex monger. You won't be showing off on a ramp, you'll be doing that on the trail. In fact, you can always make fun of the stocker YJ by saying (Huh, those springs seem to do just fine under my rig. It might be the fact that they are attached to a Jeep is why they give you problems"


Let me give opinion to your issues i the order you made them, except approach angle I'll address last.

Swap the rears up front and vice versa. Maybe one set was worn out more due to things like heavy loads, larger motor, plowing. If not, just consider yourself ground breaking by crossing rockcrawling with pre-running.


Yup, you need to modify the skid and crossmember. No doubt.

You're into a new front D/S, probably a rear too but you might not know it yet.


Modify your bumper it include M/L rests.

Eliminate the front play with a Panhard bar. Get fabbin'.

Eliminate rear axle wrap with a Traction Bar. Keep fabbin'.

Buy the longest damn shocks you can, like the 36" 9-way adjustables from Full Traction and Rancho (FTs are cheaper).

You'll need higher upper mounts to fit them. Don't stop fabbing yet, or $12 ford mounts might work. In any case, the shock is what is limiting travel. Make the limit the extension of the suspension instead, maximizing travel. Might as well, your into it too far already.

Now about that issue of approach. Unfortunately they only way you will be able to reduce this is by increasing the size of the tire. I think a 37"x12.50"x17" would do nicely here. Can Santa fit them down your chimney?


But that will only open the next can of worms, fitment. Trimming and bumpstoping will be necessary.

In the long run, you be taking names and kicking ass on the trails.


Cheer up and enjoy it.
 
#5 ·
Bill....

Send me your home addy and I'll send you some of Quebec's finest Oka cheese to go with that WHINE ..

I've had my share of growing pains with YJ's as well but I'm almost there.
It's silky smooth on the road and trail. Rear flexes like crazy but my front is limited by my shackle droop...I'm going to try a longer shackle or M/L's at the worst. I'm glad I did it....
Keep pushing!!!!
A couple of notes:
My traction bar I made for the rear is perfect and will no doubt save the springs.
The front d-shaft I had made out of PTO triangular shaft (don't laugh) is not balanced and doesn't even vibrate at all!
The yokes were clearanced and we'll see how it goes with more droop....
That's it....get fabbin'....!



Any one interested in a LWB frame?

Oh almost forgot I bought another LWB yesterday....
1 LJ-81, 1 SWB H/T, 2 LWB...addicted?
 

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#6 ·
WHy pick on Bill ??? he has a very valid reason to bitch. I to did the YJ swap and ran into every single thing he mentioned. 300 guys on here raved on """just throw yjs on" so i did. Everyone left out the little fact that now i have 6 inches of spring stickin out in front of the sami,there will be SEVERE axle wrap, and oh yea we forgot to mention your drivehsaft is gonna bottom out and rip off the side of your 4:1 t-case...... oops forgot that part!! Im extremely leary of taking advice off this board now becuase noone ever tells the whole story.. The latest one was how awsome it was to swap dodge mounts inot the sami ""THEY ARE THE SAME!"" is what is qoted about 5 different times... OH yea except they forgot to mention, the studs are bigger so a 15 minute change turns into a full afternoon of taking crap off,redrilling and putting it back together.. Oh and now look the motor sits a inch lower throwing off the tranny-t-case shaft angle woops! forgot to mention that to.
Thats just a start to the 15 different ""awsome"" swaps ive tried from listening on here
 
#7 ·
Did you know the 16V motor swap can be performed in about 15 minutes
! All the places that sell stuff and most the people who install it fail to tell you what a PITA it is... Just suck it up, modify it best you can and if it still sucks, undo the mess and begin again.
 
#8 ·
i never said it was a 15 min job for the dodge motor mounts.
it took me over 2 months of r/r to make my very own 1.6 adapter plate and the passanger side relocating motor mount
yes you have to drill out and you have to cut about 3/8" off the bolt to make it fit. i even went as far as putting in one of the asain soild motor mounts on the drivers side but i did not like the way it vibed my teeth so i replaced it with a stock one i bought at the melt. i have the other dodge mount just have not replaced the drivers side yet.
soon i will be doing rears up front with ylj in the rear so keep me posted
i like to know everything i'm in for before i start so i can be prepared.
[image]http://bbs.off-road.com/ubbthreads/download.php?Number=921865[/image]
 

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#10 ·
We've all been there. I can't count the # of times I've started a project, expected it to be a weekend thing only to have it spill over into a marathon event. Case in point: my YJ swap and Toy axle swap. I built the YJ kit myself and it took A LOT of measuring, and re-measuring, only to have to throw it all away and start fresh. Finally, nailed it, many weekends later. Toy swap: much the same. Rear was a bitch, and front is no picnic either. The front is NOT a straight drop-in as the perches are too wide and I'm still messing with the U-bolts, etc. What it boils down to is that nothing goes as planned. My first engine pull took forever, now I can have it out and back in a few hours at most. We'll see if the 4.3L goes in so easily... ;-)
We understand your need to vent, we've all been there. I won't be finishing my Zuk for the next couple months and I initially thought I would have had it done this past summer! LOL Go figure...

Cheers,
Steve
 
#11 ·
May I pitch a bitch into the mix?

Most vendors (not all) offer some type of conversion (suspension most notable). The conversion "kits" never seem to be complete, meaning that after you recieve the kit, it's time to roll up the sleeves and get wrenching. More often than not, one has to really investigate what other changes will be required in doing the conversion. Usually, more parts are needed, leaving you with a vehicle that is half apart and thumbing a ride to the parts house.
When these "kits" are lisated on the various vendor sites, thet make no mention of the pitfalls or the additional work/parts that will be required. There's nothing worse than getting halfway into a project and discovering that more parts need to be ordered to complete it.

I've found that when an approximate time is given to complete a project, I multiply it by 2.6 to get a best case scenario time approximation.

As far as the Mopar mounts are concerned, I don't recall anyone saying it would be a 15 minute project. It seems to me that although there are slight differences between the OEM mounts and the Mopar ones, some folks position them differently. Some lower, and some raise the motor. Yep one needs to drill the holes out to 1/2" and maybe shorten the studs a bit, but that shouldn't kill an afternoon.

Oh, did I mention the awesome tranny mount swap using one from a GM TH350? Easy as pie and will take 15 minutes...NOT!

Seriously, when doing any upgrade, I research the crap out of it to anticipate any possible problem or snag. Seems like I always manage to experience them, one way or the other....

Keeping things in perspective.....

I would not have been able to do all that I have to my zook if it wasn't for all the great folks here and their collective knowledge. I for one am very greatful!!!!!!!!!!!!

And that's the rest of the story........
 
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#12 ·
Thanks for all the deep thought posts. I guess I was venting a little. I DO NOT have a garage, I DO live up in Maine, & I DO have a family so with that said I can't spend a whole winter tinkering around on the Zook like some can. These last days before snow flies are my last chance to get mods. done until late spring. I guess I was a little pissed about how people on here tend to make things sound "plunk & dunk" when they are FAR from that. I have tried a few things to fix my problems. I put a rear trac bar on & that help eliminate a lot of my vibrations, I knotched my skid plate but now the drive shaft hits on the cross member, Saved the panhard bar that ripped off my frame last fall to put back on up front, did some grinding so the missing links have a place to sit.... somewhat, I'm trying to find some worn out YJ front spring to try to get the Zook setting level again, alrady have Ford shock mounts up front & moved inward mounts out back so I guess I just need to get LONGER shocks ( I guess 31" is a short shock now).
I probably WILL end up having to have custom driveshafts made up. It's too bad I didn't buy something that I found earlier this year before I had my Yota axles in. It was a Toyota high pinion thirdmember with a factory electric locker for $600. I farted around on buying for a few days & it was gone. Now I could really use it the problems it would solve: Not being able to steer in tight areas in 4wd (welded right now), drive shaft would not hit on cross member & skid plate, drive shaft wouldn't have steep angle. Oh well, live & learn. I'll get these problems straightened out I guess just glad I still have a stock Zook that i can play around with.
 
#13 ·
Hmm.. I got th Trail Tough YJ kit. Talked to brent for about 2 hours on the phone and he told me every single issue I'd have and he was right on the money. Told me I'd need at least 1" spacer in rear (got 1" ext yoke), and 2 1" spacers up front, one for each end of the front shaft. Aslo told me to get Ford towers and 9012's (he suggested 32" DT8000 but I wanted adjustables) which I did. He also told me to replace all my sprign and shackle bushings or it would be sloppy (which I didn't and it is sloppy). Also told me I'd need a trac bar or I'd wrap springs, also said a panhard would help.

BTW I did my YJ swap in about 3 hours start to finish, by myself with no air tools. Except for the front shock towers.
 
#14 ·
I too had a chance to meet and talk to Brent at SOTR 2001 and he told me the same things he told Mini4x and everything went smooth. The off road benifits of the swap was a night and day difference and worth every penny and minute invested. I do not care to much for the on road ride being too soft with a lot of body roll, but this is a trail rig first, road driver second.
 
#15 ·
So Brent told you you would need a traction bar in the rear. For years he said that he didn't like them and that they were not necessary. Just like when I did my YJ swap about six months ago and I called him about sever axle wrap with the yj's, he told me he didn't understand why I was having such a problem because nobody else was.
 
#16 ·
In reply to:

I to did the YJ swap and ran into every single thing he mentioned. 300 guys on here raved on """just throw yjs on" so i did.

[/ QUOTE ] I also think most people bought kits that were already designed and tested, so it was a *mostly* bolt on process, which would also be a mostly *throw em on* process, not designing your own from scratch ... what do you expect. You want it the easy way, but a kit already designed and tested, you want to save money doing it yourself, be prepared to spend some time and remember, time=money.


In reply to:

Everyone left out the little fact that now i have 6 inches of spring stickin out in front of the sami

[/ QUOTE ] All you had to do was to look at the pictures of all the trucks already done, as it was known it was like that.

In reply to:

there will be SEVERE axle wrap,

[/ QUOTE ] Lets see, a soft spring in spring over position .. Who woulda ever guessed.


In reply to:

and oh yea we forgot to mention your drivehsaft is gonna bottom out and rip off the side of your 4:1 t-case...... oops forgot that part!!

[/ QUOTE ] I never had that problem with my CSC SR front and my own rear .. maybe it was Your design


In reply to:

OH yea except they forgot to mention, the studs are bigger so a 15 minute change turns into a full afternoon of taking crap off,redrilling and putting it back together..

[/ QUOTE ] Well, you read the wrong info, there were plenty of posts talking of redrilling the holes, maybe the problem is selective reading ..

In reply to:

Thats just a start to the 15 different ""awsome"" swaps ive tried from listening on here

[/ QUOTE ]
Maybe you need to do a *bit* more reasearch, before you start a project .. spend a couple hours going thru old posts, reading them all, and picking the good from bad
 
#17 ·
Doug

You keep it up and were going to start callin' ya Dr. Phil !!!

(tell it like it is...Phil)

I would expect you buy all your parts.....
(at this point I'm not sure if I should put a smilly face...little rough on Wild Bill)

 
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#18 ·
Ahh I can take it besides Doug O for one was just quoting Mikrosilakhan's post not mine although I had many similar thoughts in my post. I'm guessing that a lot of people on here like I dunno live at home with their parents, have no responsiblities etc. Although I do manage to spend a fair amount of time on here I don't always have time to try to seach for 100s of post on a mods. just to MAKE SURE that I know EXACTLY how it's really gonna go. I'll get all (or most at least)of the bugs worked out on the YJ springs. I was just bummed out for the reasons I listed & a Zook without the beloved "YJ SPRINGS" still wheels good without all the headaches.
 
#19 ·
I was very interested in your post, WB, since I have a set of YJs in my basement that are waiting to "just be thrown on." I see at least 500$ worth of parts just for the basic installation goodies from TT and that's not counting all the driveline spacers and new shocks and mounts and stuff. And then there's all the other crap that you mentioned. It is making me rethink my plans to do the YJs and explore other options. Thanks for a useful rant.



~daxe
 
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#20 ·
Your welcome Mr. Daxe. I know you like to drive your on the road so the YJs MIGHT not be the set up for you unless you do some extra little tricks like adjustable shocks, a anti-sway bar etc. Maybe going shackle reversal spring under would work good for you. Try to find out if anyone has done the YJ's in a SPUA configuration.
 
#21 ·
I don't know if it's because my truck is a LWB, but I find it rides and handling better than whan it was stock. I run DT 8000 and the ride is plush. I do have a 4 pack in the front which I'm thinking of replacing (back to really) for a 5....
my 2 cents....
 
#22 ·
In reply to:

that are waiting to "just be thrown on." I see at least 500$ worth of parts just for the basic installation goodies

[/ QUOTE ]

Just a note, it cost me about $40 in metal, cut by a computer controled plasma cutter, to make my rear set up. I went to the place, had my drawings with dimensions, asked the guy if he could do it, he said yes ..

Accurate Plasma Cutting Inc
1271 East 289th Street, Wickliffe, OH 44092
(440) 943-1655

In reply to:

just to MAKE SURE that I know EXACTLY how it's really gonna go.

[/ QUOTE ] Well, theres your problem, if you dont research enough, how the heck do you know what has or hasnt been tried effectively or not yet .. the suspension is an important part of the vehicle and must be correctly done, or you will have problems .. you cant just throw a suspension together without planning or testing and think it'll work fine with it not thought out correctly or tested. Swaping springs is one thing, but when your making new mounts for swaping springs, its gotta be right .. just look what Anton did, he made a drawing with measurements, posted the picture and asked for opinions on it .. THEN he built it.

In reply to:

I'm guessing that a lot of people on here like I dunno live at home with their parents, have no responsiblities etc.

[/ QUOTE ]
Dont really know who this was directed at but since my name is in the post, I want to say, yup I live at home again, moved back from ohio. I also gave up a weekly paycheck to help(doing it myself) my parents with the complete remodeling of their home, I'm currently in the middle of approx(contractor costs) $100,000 in work(dont belive those costs, move to Long Island) to which I've been working on it for the last 7 months staying within a 35,000 budget .. so by saving them roughly $65,000 I've been given a place to stay, food, and was given $4000 to which I bought a welder, plasma cutter, tube bender, and got out of a finanical hole.
 
#23 ·
>> YJs MIGHT not be the set up for you unless you do some extra little tricks like adjustable shocks, a anti-sway bar etc.

If I do it I will do it right. I would go the whole 9 yards and invest in some really nice adjustable shocks and everything, trac bar and panhard bar, etc.

>Maybe going shackle reversal spring under would work good for you.

I currently have the s/r SPUA now with the stock springs which are quite droopy in my estimation (in the bad sense of the word)

> Try to find out if anyone has done the YJ's in a SPUA configuration.

Bansenshukai has YJs SPUA with add-a-leaves and uses the same kit I am eyeballing. I have looked at his truck, talked and wheeled with him and it works well. I find all that very encouraging, but need to consider the realities you brought up in your post.

When I look at total cost for some of the various suspension options, things like coil conversion kits start looking attractive. Coils appear to be the real ultimate setup for flex and approach and departure angles.

I am even contemplating doing some M/Ls front and rear with stock springs or maybe some lifted springs. It seems after a lot of reading that avoiding the spring width increase of YJs leaves out a lot of complexity.

~daxe
 
#24 ·
Well I have YJ's on the back of mine.
It was an early kit from Fred Swanson (? spelling)
I havn't had a problem with mine, other than they are very soft (4 Packs)
My shocks are still my limiting factor, as they were new and have not wanted to replace them.
I am running rear's up front and it works good.
I was running OME 2" on the rear before I went to the YJ's.
The YJ's are a little taller (not much).
The OME were to stiff, not much stuff.
I plan on going to a 5 Pack in there rear someday.
The 4 pack works of if you don't have much weight.
 
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#25 ·
I think having a hard top Zook makes more of a difference than a lot of people realize I had to put the 5 leaf YJs with a Toyota rear leaf in there too. Someone with a soft top with not much in the back might only need a YJ 4 leaf spring pack. Also with things like body roll. Someone with shocks a little bit stiffer than mine (VERY SOFT) & a soft top Zook might find the the YJ springs fine on the road.
DougO I guess I have some disagreements & comments for you but I don't want to turn this into an arguement so I'll save it & keep it off this BBS.
 
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