Off Roading Forums banner

SAS D44 vs 60, leaf or coil?

3K views 37 replies 8 participants last post by  BigNorm 
#1 ·
I'm not ready to do this yet. But I am (and have been) seriously thinking about it for the future. I know what I want to do. Go D44 with Leafs. My reasoning revolves around the basics, cost. I see Biggie Truck has a highpinion D44 from an '79 F150, complete hub to hub for $150. Now, if he happened to be closer, I would probably snatch that up. I am told my gearing and ARB will swap over. If true, I would have my axle, with the gearing and locker ready to go. The driveshaft should be a bolt on. Not sure about the hubs and spindle. I would actually like to be able to mount my ABS sensor and toner on to this new axle. That would probably require a bit of work. Before popping under the truck, I would upgrade the shafts to Warn Alloy ($300?)and use the stockers as spares. I would also maybe get a pair of CTM's ($300). I would think that would be a pretty good setup for my plan of continuing to use 35's. Any opinion here? I just can't see going 60 in my case. The added money needed not only for the axle, but for the locker, well.....

Now, the big question:

coil vs. leaf suspension. What I am after is simplicity and strength. I reviewed (again) Brian Soderblum's D44/coil install, and it seems overly complicated with all the trackbar and radius arm BS. Leafs I feel can work on the newer Broncos with "accordian" front boxed frame section. I took a few basic measurments and one could run leafs all the way up and connecting to the front flat part of the frame (boxed)in front of that rippled section. One could always reinforce that area. It might actually get reinforced through a winch mount attached there. At the rear, where the current radius arm attaches to the frame, would be apx. 59-62" in total length, with the axle roughly in the middle of that. The shackle would be mounted at the back, so it would be wise to move the axle forward of it's current position. The leaf presents the challenge of attachment to the frame where it won't obstruct the tires. The frame also appears to not be just a simple straight line through this area, but curves in or out in a couple places. This would be the biggest hurdle though. No track bar, no radius arms. Steering, well, not sure if problems might be enountered there with a spring over setup. I would not think so. Maybe this would be more difficult because the D44's usually were under coil setups? Opinions?

I think most folks generally feel that coils ride smoother. I think either suspension option will produce equally good results off-road. To me, it just seems that the leaf idea is the easier to fab up, if any of this could be considered easy
 
See less See more
1
#2 ·
I think the dana 44 set up you are planning would be more than strong enough but I have no clue on the sas. I know a guy that got a sas done on his raider and his pitman arm hits the leafs and limits his steering under any kind of articulation but I am sure that can be fixed. There seem to be alot of sas going on over at www.fullsizebronco.com they seem to have a lot of knowledge over there maybe you could earch there or have crazed post the questions for you
 
#3 ·
Tony, youre talking about Lee's Raider.....his problem is that the steering is located outboard of the frame, instead of on the inside like most other trucks.

Juice, that is what i was contemplating while at work today. I am getting rather tired of having to screw around with the blasted TTB. And from what i have read/heard, those TTB gears/lockers are fully compatable in the solid 44s, which makes it even more tempting.
First off i feel i have to point out that youll gain alot of lift by doing this! id expect 6-8" of lift when youre done. Your 35s wont look so big after that!

With the exception of the trac-bar, i think going coil-sprung would be easier to do, but going leaf-sprung would have its advantages. First and foremost, youd be all set to go once you finally decide to go one-ton

I like the idea of not having a trac-bar to have to create, especially with that damn TTB crossmember under there taking up important space. Unless you want to get a 78-9 xmember and swap it in its place? (dunno if that will even work
).

But with Chrome moly shafts, and beefy ujoints you could probably get that solid44 to hold up to a set of 37" MTRs
 
#4 ·
6-8" of lift, I am not interested in. It would sit right where it sits now. You probably are right on the Raider, and that is a way thinner vehicle as well. I don't think I will run into that problem.

With the leafs, I would never move on to one ton axles. Just not happening with me. I like when I wheel with vehicles with bigger more agressive tires than me, and they struggle to go through the same trails (if not setup as I am).

The whole crossmember deal will be interesting. I would like to do away with it, but in the end, will probably end up leaving it as it.

Yes, the front would probably be ok with decent driving, locked, and 37's. But, that defeats my purpose. By doing this I am looking to really create a decent margin of "mind safety". You never know when something might go, but the more you push the mechanical limits, the more likely you are to break something. A D44 with upgraded axles and joints is not the same thing as a TTB 44. It is just plain more solid. The pumpkin is basically the same, but that is rarely where TTB's run into problems, because it is pretty strong.

This really would be a "final step" for me. I have no interst in super large tires. 37's YES

But I just don't think I will ever head that way. 35's work good for me.
 
#5 ·
I was contemplating these same issues today Juice. It's funny that you should bring it up. I too enjoy the simplicity/cleanliness of a leaf sprung SAS. I think leaves are much more forgiving when you bash them against rocks as opposed to a Radius arm. Did they make leaf sprung solid axle D44's for the Ford Fullsizes? It would make sense to me that they would have especially in some of the older F250s. Sorry that I'm adding more questions than answers. NORM
 
G
#7 ·
My brother has a 74 and 75 F250 both of them have leaf sprung Dana 44, the problem with them is that they are eight lug and you would have to change the bolt pattern on the rear axle to make it match.

I think that when I do a SAS it will be leaf sprung it is the easier way IMHO.
 
#9 ·
In reply to:

6-8" of lift, I am not interested in. It would sit right where it sits now.

[/ QUOTE ]
nope, not if you leave the TTB xmember under there... Zach will tell you, it's just not going to happen. cutting it out and welding in a reinforcement up high shouldn't be a big deal though, and with a leaf/bumper crossmember at the end of the frame rails you should have enough support to hold her together. The geometry of a trac-bar coil setup gets funky at extreme articulation, which is the main reason I want to go leafs on mine. The other reason is that I know I can make it flex because my rear already flexes til the tires hit the bed and it's all stock back there! With some missing links (pinned for road use) and something like those BC Broncos hinge things (also pinned for road use) it would flex with the best of them, and without the body moving sideways like a coil truck will do. Plus, to me, the simplicity just makes it a clear winner as fabbing it will be easier and there's less moving parts.

Any 73-79 F250 should have a leaf sprung D44 with narrow spacing and 8 lugs, which is nice because you can just imagine that having the springs further inward lets the axle torque them more = madd flex
The f150's should have coils from 73-79, and I dont think they made 4x4 F350's til 79, and they will have narrow spaced leaf D60's with kingpins... ha, good luck finding one of those!
 
#11 ·
In reply to:

The other reason is that I know I can make it flex because my rear already flexes til the tires hit the bed and it's all stock back there! With some missing links (pinned for road use) and something like those BC Broncos hinge things (also pinned for road use) it would flex with the best of them,

[/ QUOTE ]
please explain this more to me do you have the b/c bronco spring rockers I didnt know they could be pinned for road use. NEED MORE INFO
 
#12 ·
Well, I was waiting for people who had done or seen this bring up the crossmember. It looks like there is no getting around that. In Brians writeup I think he mentions trimming that crossmember. In my case, with just shy of 5" of lift, and wanting to keep it there, I would probably have to go the route of removing it and replacing with something custom. But, I will have to do this regardless of which suspension I use if I want to keep it at the current ride height. On the + side, if I were to fab something, hopefully it could be done to allow the oil pan removal when done.

I probably would not go with a D44 that had leafs then, since it sounds like they had the 8 lug outers. I would just need to cut off the coil perches and have leaf mounts welded up once I had the measurements squared away.
 
#13 ·
I believe the leaf setup clears the crossmember without any problem if you do the shackles to the rear of the leaf like Shilo did. And I believe he used stock leafs with his D60 SAS. I wouldn't let the 8 lug thing deter you from the D44 because there are alot of people swapping there 78/79 to 8 lugs, there's no reason why you couldn't swap the outers to 5 and keep or sell the 8 lug rotors. Just my .02
 
#14 ·
Was looking at that crossmemeber while contemplating how to get my dang spindle off (another project I am working on right now) That sucker is huge under there. with the D44, I am not deterred, just seems the 5 lug outer and cutting the coil perches and welding spring perches is the easier way to go. Unless maybe the 8 lug outer, leaf Solid 44's also had thicker axle tubing ?
 
#17 ·
ya, mine has kissed the crossmember once when i jumped it, but not any other time than that. All that crap is getting wacked out of there soon anyways. once i get the main crap done on the zuk(another good month or two) the bronco goes back under the chopping block.
 
#19 ·
no it isnt. some of the way older ones are leaf spring half tons, but a 78 isnt, it is coil sprung.

juice. just get a 1/2 ton solid 44(way easier t ofind than a 3/4ton of the right year(77.5-79) or a d60.
torch and grind off the C mounts, and weld on a set of perches. should take under 2 hours.
 
#21 ·
Yeah, that crossmember has me quite perplexed....that thing is humongous! Id like to just cut a couple inches off the bottom and reinforce it, but without closely examining it, im not sure just how much can be safely removed.
I still want to do a SAS, but at the same time, i need to keep the truck street legal, so i need to do the same as you Juice....get it under there with as little lift as possible
 
G
#24 ·
My HPRevCut44 has "5 lugs" and leaf spring perches. D side perch is cast into the hsg for strength. Shilo's superford site turned me in the direction of leafs for my D60. People around here said leafs provide a more stable street ride and with shackles mounted behind the axle you wont need a track bar. One less thing to deal with for a clean set-up.

My D44 has the flat top knuckles if you can get them machined you can set up a pretty cool hi-steer.

How can I ship this thing to you? Does anyone know any trucking lines that can handle axles. I have a loading dock and I can make a skid to band it down.

You can have it for $125.
 
#25 ·
Hold that thought, I would love to buy it, price is right, just don't want to pay the same amount in shipping. Unfortunately you and I are about as far from each other as we can get. Let me look into shipping cost.

As to leafs, I am not looking at them for ride. I think a good coil setup will likely ride better, although the leafs can produce good results. With the leafs, you eliminate the track bar and radius arms, and you have a setup which I feel is simpler and stronger.
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top