O/T; Earthquakes in France

[Farther]

Well, I haven't seen a politician of any party, any level of government or nationality that should not have a bounty on them. In my experience, politicians (and people with political agendas or aspirations) will lie even if the truth sounds better.

If we applied the principle of pre-emptive strike in our personal life were would that put our society (my boss would have been dead along time ago). I don't understand how we can accept a different standard of conduct on the international level than we do on the domestic level. We are going to instill democractic principles and civil right in other nations by our conduct? According to a national report, 50% of Iraq is under the age of 15. We will be bombing a nation of children. I think that if/when our youth start coming home in body bags the shine will wear off this war.

For the record and so there is no mistake, I am a registered Republican and currently have two member of my family in the Gulf. I support them as solders doing their duty. But I do not and have never blindly accepted my government's policy.

Sorry for this. I usually do not like to respond to these off topic post. [img]images/graemlins/censor.gif[/img]

[rockrat]

Wel spoken farther, I agree. I think this is the greatist country to live, unfortuatly our government is no longer we the people, and there view's are viewed by others as the american people, so we are labled just as we may lable other countrys for there leadership, may not always be the peoples beliefs, thought s and veiws. I believe an eye for an eye, tell me which war that the U.S has faught that did not line some F____N pollaticians pocket in the name of freedom. but then this is my 02 Most wars are a bandaid not the means to an end

[outlawmws]

Wanderer, you may have some points there, But the fact remains that no country, not the US, England,
France, Spain, Russia, Japan, Germany or any country I could name, past or present, doesn't have dirty
laundry. England was heavily involved in the slave trade, as suppliers. England and France could have
stopped Hitler before he got started, but waited for "more proof" I could go on for hours without opening
a book.

I do notice that now that we're on Saddam's doorstep and have made it clear were done screwing with him,
he's now allowing inspections. in the past couple of days he has destroyed about 1/2 of those missiles,
yesterday he invited the inspectors into Bagdad, and is now willing to provide a list of the 180 scientists
He couldn't come up with. The UN didn't get that much done in 12 years. Saddam is a murderer of
innocents, he got into power by executing his opponents, real or perceived, and forced his "Comrades"
to be the firing squads to show their loyalty. He was involved it 2 assassination attempts on world leaders
in his youth before he murdered his way into power. This is the man we should treat with respect and as
if he was a legitimate leader of his country?

Talk all you want to about how bad the US is, or how we're throwing our weight around. But every time
we stand back we get criticized for not doing something, so it seems we're damned if we do and damned
if we don't.

Wanderer, I'm not aiming this at you specifically, but I'm a bit fed up with all the people that want to paint
the US as the bad guy, the heavy, that is pushing around poor innocent Saddam, or is about to make
war and punish the Iraqi People for Saddam's evil (god I hate that term these days). Saddam, like
Momar Kadaffy, is a danger to everyone. Kadaffy got the message some years ago. It's Saddam's turn.
Or does everyone want to wait for another 911 event before we act?

If we were as nasty and belligerent as every one makes out, we would have and could have, taken the
world at the point of the sword after WW2.

We didn't.

In fact we financed the rebuilding of Europe, Japan and many other places worldwide. France has been
more mercenary about selling wepons and dangerous nuclear technology than any other country in the
world. They enjoy the protection of NATO but dropped out of it so they would not have to support or
follow it's direction. I don't believe the French government deserves respect, much less a permanent set
with Veto in the UN. They are two faced and only are in it for themselves. Has France released their
colonies? Only where the locals would not stop killing them, like Morocco and Southeast Asia (it was
French Indochina before it was Vietnam, Laos and Cambodia) Look at a south american map.

For those that are so scathing about what's going on, pro or con, spend some time with some history
books on what really went on, before you throw those rocks. Sure the US has made mistakes in the
past, as have we all. But don't ever assume that the images that people like Saddam portrays are the
real image of what their intents are.


OK rant off.

[Capn_Crunch]

The U.S. needs to say, "Flip y'all! If you can't support removing a threat to the world then we're no longer sending you food, medical or money. Our troops are leaving tomorrow and you can fend for yourself."

I'm not a war nut; I don't have the "elitist" US mentality that many people have and I'm VERY suspicious of our Govt. most of the time but if people cannot see what a threat these Bananna Republic, Middle East governemnts are to the safety of the rest of the world then they need to have their heads examined.

[JIMZUKI]

howdy,
capn i agree with the pull out and fund stopage to france. and just think if we did this we could for once we could give money to where it is need, in the pockets of the vets and the people who are on the streets of our own country. but then again the money could be used to pad our leaderships pockets and fund their new homes.

[wanderer4x4]

Outlaw ( and others) its NOT the US's actions I'm objecting to..I agree entirely that Saddam is a nut, and needs to be stopped, and I can whole heartedly support say, lining up proven, convicted terrorists against a wall. Its the attitude towards others of different opinions that I object to - and not just from the US, I think a significant part of France's attitude in this stinks, too.

actually: Japan, Germany, etc, might be a good example though....while its plain fact that the US financed a lot of reconstruction, it was only done the way the US wanted, with no thought to local problems it created...I'll forgo personal viewpoint on it, and simply coment that those same enforced govt's put in place after WW2 are part of why the US is seen in such a bad light by other nations, led very notably, by Japan, and Germany. Again, 'somthing' needed doing, but the attitude displayed at the time was more antogonistic than concilliatory, despite the fact that the bulk of the remaining population in both those countries had no input into the war at all.

-------
a person can be smart, but people are dumb..both govts, and the military generally fall into the latter class.

$0.02
chris

[lilsammy4x4]

Look Wanderer,

I don't blame France or the poeople there of. I have been there during my time in the US military and have enjoyed there hospitality. What bothers me id the government's Lassiez Faire attitude towards a 13 year brewing problem. I have studied the evolution of warfare that includes some of Saddam's best use of weapons of mass destruction.

He used Sarin and Mustard gases in Iraq's war with Iran. He later used these same gases on his own people as the means to quash the Kurdish rebellion.

The problem is best thought in terms of waiting to find out if Hitler is gonna stop at the Rhine. Where will Hussein draw the line?

Please don't mistake my support of my president as claiming that my government is always right, just right this time.

Tom
lilsammy4x4 [img]images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] [img]images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] [img]images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] [img]images/graemlins/givemebeer.gif[/img] [img]images/graemlins/scs.gif[/img]

[wanderer4x4]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
Severe earthquake in France February 14, 2003. Today it was reported that a severe earthquakes have occurred in 10 different locations in France. The severity was measured in excess of 10 on the Richter Scale. The cause was the 56,681 dead American soldiers buried in French soil rolling over in their graves

[/ QUOTE ]

thats what I object to. out of line, tasteless, and, forgive me for saying it, exactly why you guys are 'ugly americans' to the remaining 95% of the worlds population. Its beneath the majority of this boards members, and insults not just those very troops who're supposedly rolling over, but all well bred, thoughful americans just as much as it does the french. get it through your heads, that I'm NOT anti US, or anti french...for lack of a more politically correct way of putting it, I'm 'anti twit'. to paraphrase good old monty python, whoever dreamed up that piece of mendacious dogshit should easilly win lower-class twit of the year.

are you telling me you actually agree with insulting someone who has a different point of view than your own?? You dont agree with someone elses' opinion, whe I come from, you say so, point blank, under your own name, and in your own words. Just as an idea WHY I dislike this sort of thing, ight I suggest you go watch a movie called 'the wave'....stuff like this little 'news clip' are EXACTLY how Hitler started his media campaign.......the movie shows how easy it is to sway peoples minds based on appaently innocent little things like this.

c

[Bill4rest]

Whatever--- [img]images/graemlins/lame.jpg[/img]

[outlawmws]

Wanderer, The fact is we fought a war against Germany and Japan that was forced on us. They lost.
We could have just as easily repeated what was done to Germany after WW1 and was in fact done to
East Germany (and Poland and several other Eastern European countries) by Russia, Excuse me the
USSR, But we didn't. We won. To the victors go the spoils? In this case instead of raping the losers,
we financed reconstruction. By the way, thats about the first time in the history of the world that
happened.

We were selling to both sides? Why not? We were neutral in WW1 and isolationist prior to Pearl harbor.
Neutral means free to deal with both sides, not that were required to deal with neither. Look at
Switzerland. What dealings have they kept hidden for 60 years or more?

Sure we forced it to be on our terms. Why not? Our objective was to create a place were war has no
place. We supported the UN, we forgave most, if not all of the lend lease debt that England and France
ran up. Where would either of those countries be, realistically, if we hadn't bailed them out? Speaking
German that's certain. Probably Russia too. And if they're honest with themselves that's what galls
them is they needed help. It's human nature to despise and resent any assistance. I have no clue why,
but it is true.

Germany and Japan resent us? How very typical. Sure we dethroned the emperor off of being a deity.
He was used as a pawn to lead the rape of much of the Pacific Rim. Yes, we forced the Germans into
a democratic form of government. They allowed themselves to be made part of a machine that overran
the bulk of Europe and Eurasia before the tide turned. If they had not allowed themselves to be sucked
into the insanity, the war would not have been fought and conservatively 60 million people wouldn't
have died. No one will ever know the real toll since so many records were lost, destroyed or falsified.
(Do you think the Russians really reported their real losses?)

Now the French government wants to be reckoned a world power that must be respected and obeyed.
I don't see it. Why are they so dead set on letting Saddam go on? Why are the Russians supporting
this BS? Since neither country has shown any humanitarian bent, It's either to weaken the US, just
because they can, (pure politics) or, they think they can latch onto Iraq's oil themselves.

Why are people making rude jokes about the French? It's what their government has earned by their
actions and reactions to date. I doubt most people, if they were asked straight out, if there resentment
were against the French people or the French government, would say the people. If they want to have
respect, let it be earned.

I have long ago stopped expecting anyone to thank us for what we do for them. I don't even expect too
many to agree to help. What really gets me is when they actively object to us doing what is necessary,
and even expect us to ask their permission. If they showed they could be trusted, and a willingness to
do the dirty work, or even help when it is needed I might feel different.

It all comes down to what I said earlier, We're damned if we do, and damned if we don't.

I can guarantee you one thing. If it were France that had 3 planes crash into their innocent people, they
would be the first to "cry havoc" and let loose the legions!

OK that wasn't quite a rant (was it? I'm too close to the discussion!)

If it was a rant, it's because this stuff, after the past few years, has punched one of my buttons.