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  #1  
Old 05-01-2005, 06:37 PM
phazerowner
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Default 1984 Phazer Clutching and carb jettting

I have a 1984 yamaha Phazer which I've upgraded with a long track, Hi-altitude clutch and carb set-up. I'm having trouble getting the engine to 7000rpm,s I usually get up to around 6400. I usually ride between 9000 and 11,500 ft. I thought about switching to lighter clutch weights in the ypz clutch, does anyone have any ideas on this. Also I read some posts from 2000 concerning update of carb nozzles for high altitude. Anyone have any recomendeations or ideas about this? Phazerowner
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Old 05-11-2005, 05:15 PM
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Default Re: 1984 Phazer Clutching and carb jettting

What color clutch springs on primary and secondary, primary clutch weights, helix, gearing are you running in your phazer? Are you using the stock pipe or an aftermarket one? Did you have to go to smaller drivers when you installed the longer track or are they stock? Did you do any carb mods other than jetting?
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Old 05-12-2005, 07:49 PM
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Default Re: 1984 Phazer Clutching and carb jettting

Retiredpop,
The primary has the hi-alt Yel-Org spring and the secondary has a Yel-Blu spring set at B-2, (80deg). I originally had it set to C-2 like the manual said but it seemed to tight and I only got about 6200 rpm. I am using the stock 8V0 clutch weights, (46 grm), but as I said Iím thinking of going lighter for more rpmís.The helix is the stock 47 deg. but Iím going to run a 45 or 43 this winter for better backshift. The longtrack was installed by a dealer here in Colorado when the sled was new. They added an AAEN quiet can pipe, 15/31 gears and carb mods. The carbs have 125 mains, 110 pilots, 3A main nozzles, 8mm float height and 2 turns out for the air needles. Iím pretty sure the primary jets are updated with the 80L-14489-00-00 nozzles. The next time I have the carbs off Iíll check and make sure and correct if necessary. That is some great info by the way! The longtrack is a 1 1/8 paddle so the stock 8 tooth drivers were kept. I spoke with Tom Hartman of Hartman Performance in Idaho and he said I can run a 11/2 inch track if I switch to 7 tooth drivers. He also told me that the 7 tooth driver lowers the gear ratio so I need to add a tooth on the upper chaincase sprocket or subtract a tooth on the lower sprocket to keep my original gearing and to maintain as close to a 1:1 final drive ratio as possible. I really like the way the sled is geared right now. Any recommendations or suggestions? What main nozzle do you run in your sled? What elevations do you ride at and where? I really appreciate your input! phazerowner
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Old 05-13-2005, 05:13 PM
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Default Re: 1984 Phazer Clutching and carb jettting

You are set up a bit different than the 91 Phazer we still have. End result is probably close to the same though. Our setup is as follows. Primary has 8VO weights with a Wht-Lt.Grn spring. This gives a nice low engagement so you don't dig a hole on takeoff in soft fluffy snow. Wht-Lt.Grn spring has a lower preload than the Yel-Org so that is why the lower engagement. It has a higher spring rate though compared to the Yel-Org so at full shift out they are probably close.
We also have an Aaen quiet can pipe.
For secondary setup we have a Grn-Yel spring run in B2 position. I'm not sure how your secondary spring compares to this one but probably is close. I would highly recommend that you get a 39 degree helix for your sled. Part no. is 88R 17684-00. This probably made the single biggest difference in our Phazer to get it operating at the preferred 7200 rpm for the Aaen pipe. It holds at 7200 rpm now when climbing or in heavy snow. Previously with the 47 degree stock helix it would never go over 6800 unless on hardpack. Change to this helix and if you still can't get the proper rpm try a stronger primary spring before changing primary weights. I really like the Wht-Lt.Grn in our Phazer. If that spring doesn't do it you could try a Red-Brn which is slightly stiffer again if they still make it. I'm sure Tom Hartman could advise you. He knows his stuff pretty good.
For gearing we are running 17/33 but also have 7 tooth drivers because of having a 136 X 1.5" track on it. This gives an effective overall gear ratio of 2.2 to 1. Your gear ratio is 2.06 to 1 which is right on the low edge for your altitude.
Carbs have 3A main nozzles and the primary nozzle mod that you mentioned. Pilot jets are 95 and mixture screws are set at 1 3/8 turn out. I believe the mains are at 136.3 but this sled is ridden usually between 5000 to 7000 feet. We vary the mains as required.
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Old 05-15-2005, 11:21 PM
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Default Re: 1984 Phazer Clutching and carb jettting

retiredpop,
Thanks for writing back so quick! You have some interesting setups in your clutches, you have YPZ clutches in your sled correct? I could not find the Wht-Lt Grn or RedĖBrwn spring listed in the primary spring chart I have but itís a Bender catalog chart. What are the part #ís for these springs? Do you have any Yamaha spring charts you could attach to an e-mail? How about for YPZ weights or Carb nozzles? I found the chart for the secondary springs, the Grn-Yell spring has a rate of 10.86 KG/mm/Rad the Yel-BLU spring has a rate of 11.2 KG/mm/Rad. I wonder if the slightly lower rate will help backshift? Iíve been thinking of replacing the secondary spring, I think itís probably 84í vintage. You say your secondary backshifts well with this spring and a 39 deg. helix. I found a 39 Ė 45 nickel plated helix. What do you think about multi-angle helixes for the Phazer? I also had a question about the drive ratio; I know to figure the drive ratio with 8 tooth drivers you divide the lower sprocket number by the upper sprocket number, so for mine it would be; 31/15 = 2.06. Your equation is; 33/17 = 1.94 for 8 tooth, how did you factor in the 7 tooth drivers to arrive at 2.2? You said my ratio is on the lower edge for my altitude, how did you come to this conclusion? Tom Hartman has a carb update kit for the Phazer which includes main and pilot jets, main nozzles, and air jets. I donít believe I can remove the air jets from my carbs. Do you have any experience with this matter? I heard that you could move the little black plugs in the carb to effect performance, have you heard anything about this? Have you done any other sled mods besides the 1 Ĺ track, (Gas shocks, heavy suspension springs, plastic skis, etc.)? What size track came on that sled originally? Sorry about all the questions but itís nice to talk with someone who has quality experience with the Phazer snowmobiles. I was considering putting a cold air kit from Bender racing on my sled to get some more horsepower. This kit is supposed to deliver cold dense air to the carbs so I can run richer jets. I was also going to get my heads machined and cylinders ported, but I think Iíll try these helix and spring mods and see how the sleds runs. If I can get a few more ponies out of the sled Iíll be happy for a while! phazerowner
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Old 05-16-2005, 11:22 AM
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Default Re: 1984 Phazer Clutching and carb jettting

Yes this sled has YPZ clutches.

What are the part #ís for these springs?
Wht-Lt.Grn part# 90501-555A0-00, spring rate 2.85 kg/mm preload 26 kg
Red-Brn part# 90501-60579-00, spring rate 2.85 kg/mm
preload 39 kg

I wonder if the slightly lower rate will help backshift?
Actually the lower rate decreases the backshift. The stronger the torsional rate on the spring the quicker the backshift.

What do you think about multi-angle helixes
I haven't tried or read anything about multiangle helixes for the Phazer. I don't see why they would not work though.

how did you factor in the 7 tooth drivers to arrive at 2.2
Think of it this way; with 8 tooth drivers the track moves 8x2.52"(track pitch)= 20.16". With 7 tooth drivers the track moves 7x2.52 = 17.64" This is equivalent to a further gear reduction of 7/8. You already have a reduction of 17/33 or .515 so overall this now works out to .45 . If you invert that to get back to the same working figures we are using it comes out to a ratio of 2.2. To avoid all the unnecessary math just multiply the original gear ratio by a factor of 8/7 which is the same thing.

You said my ratio is on the lower edge for my altitude, how did you come to this conclusion?
For every thousand feet of altitude you lose 3% of your power at sea level. Because the Phazer has 56HP at sea level or with the pipe having a supposed gain of 14HP you would end up at 70HP. At 9000 feet you would only end up with 51HP. That isn't a whole lot of HP to turn your track so you need to compensate by gearing down. I personally would not want a lower ratio than 2.05. You just lose too much performance in my opinion.

Tom Hartman has a carb update kit for the Phazer which includes main and pilot jets, main nozzles, and air jets. I donít believe I can remove the air jets from my carbs. Do you have any experience with this matter? I heard that you could move the little black plugs in the carb to effect performance, have you heard anything about this?
I actually had Hartman do a mod on my carbs for a 93 Phazer which I once owned. He bored the carbs, put in new main nozzles (2A), primary nozzles as well as dial-a-jets. He didn't change pilot jets or air jets. I ended up changing the main nozzles back to the stock because it was loading up on fuel and hesitating when I hammered the throttle from idle. I don't know about moving the black plugs in the carbs. All I know is they run pretty bad if you don't have them in place. I guess you could experiment to see what effect they have or better yet check with Hartman.

Have you done any other sled mods besides the 1 Ĺ track
This sled originally came with a 121" track. I put plastic skis on with carbides. I'm not sure of the make of skis because they were bought used. I had to make a new rubber pad in the mount but they work well. Lost quite a bit of weight too which was very nice. We haven't put in a cold air kit but I heard they work well.

I will scan and e-mail the info I have on springs and flyweights.
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Old 06-03-2005, 06:21 PM
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Default Re: 1984 Phazer Clutching and carb jettting

Retiredpop,
Sorry it took me a while to get back to you, Iíve been trying to locate some stiffer rear suspension springs and a cold air kit for my Phazer. No luck on either item. Bender originally told me they had the cold air kit but then changed there story and said they no longer carry it. Do you know of anyone else that makes either of these products? Thanks for all the great info, it was more than I could have asked for! Now that Iíve said that I have A few more questions. First what edition is the AAEN clutch manual with the YPZ info because I obviously need to get one. Also, I was considering purchasing the 45/39 Deg. Nickel plated helix from Hauk performance I referred to earlier. My thinking is that the sled will upshift fast for quick starts and mid-range and then begin to slow the upshift as RPMís increase. This would also allow for quick backshift, (from mid to full throttle), in corners and when climbing. Does this make sense to you or am I way off? I donít want to loose the sleds quickness in low Rpmís and thought maybe a multi-helix is the answer. How does the 1991 do with the 39 deg, in terms off low, mid and high Rpmís compared to the 47 deg Helix? In relation to the primary spring Iím definitely going to change it out to one with a higher spring rate. My engagement is already pretty low, (about 2800 rpm), and I would like to keep that so I donít dig a hole. What does the 1991 engage at with the Wht-Lt.Grn spring? My last question involves the spider separation wrench and hold down plate for the YPZ clutch. Iíve been looking for one for years and the cheapest Iíve found is $300+; any ideas on were to get a cheaper one? Thanks so much for your help! Phazerowner
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Old 06-05-2005, 12:08 AM
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Default Re: 1984 Phazer Clutching and carb jettting

Sorry I don't know of anyone that makes the cold air kit for the Phazer. Maybe Hartman has one or you could try to fab one yourself. Basically you want to get cool outside air directly into the airbox and exhaust the hot fan air out without having it go into the engine compartment. Seems to me it wouldn't be too hard to make up some kind of ducting to do the job. We used to run without the side panels on the engine compartment in the spring when the temps were higher. It helped a lot.
The Aaen clutch tuning handbook I have is marked "updated '95". I don't know what edition they are on now or if the new ones have the same info in them.
When I put the 39 deg helix in the 91 I didn't notice any appreciable difference in low and mid rpm operation. It seemed to be just as snappy as it was with the 47 degree helix. The helix you are thinking of should work well. You're right on with your logic.
It seems to me that the engagement rpm is around 2500 rpm with the Wht-Lt.Grn but I am guessing. I haven't ridden it for a couple of years but I know it was pretty low.
I don't know of any place to get the clutch tools other than Dennis Kirk in the U.S. or you could try Recreation Supply in Canada. Phone no. is 1-800-667-7669 or email them at rsr@sasktel.net
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Old 06-05-2005, 11:22 AM
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Default Re: 1984 Phazer Clutching and carb jettting

You could check www.totallyamaha.com for the parts if you haven't done so. It is a great site for Yamaha products.
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Old 10-18-2005, 06:42 PM
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Default Re: 1984 Phazer Clutching and carb jettting

Retiredpop,
I was trying to track down a phazer II seat cover for my 84' sled. I need something a little gripier for mountain riding. I've been watching ebay but know luck so far. Also I'm trying to figure out if I can run 91' phazer st rear springs in my supension skid because I need a stiffer spring. I see on the yamaha website that there are two part #'s for the 91', a standard spring # and a "AP" spring. Im thinking this is maybe a heavier duty spring,(Part#8Y7-47473-00-00 and 8Y7-47474-00-00). What I need to figure out is if the older phazer skids are similar enough to run the stiffer 91' longtrack springs. Could you help me with this situation? Bryan
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