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Old 04-29-2000, 02:00 PM
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Default Rigging a chain, a cable, a tow strap, winches, and more...

I have heard that there are good ways and bad ways to rig chains. Here on the farm, I was always taught to just loop the chain around whatever you're pulling on, and hook it back to itself (i.e. one loop). Somewhere, I read that this puts too much strain on the hook...is that true? Is there a better way to rig a chain? Ok, how about a few more questions...what about using chains with tow straps???bad idea? Assuming that one wasn't going to "jerk" a stuck vehicle out, would the elasticity of the tow strap lessen the force exerted on the chain, or would it increase the force exerted on the chain when the strap shrunk back down to normal size...??? Ok, how about the proper way to hook a winch cable hook to a chain? And here's another one...I have two nice clevises firmly attached to the front of farmjeep...they are both built way overkill, but when hooking to the jeep, how do I know which one to use? When pulling the Mack out of a (rare) stuck, if I'm pulling at any kind of an angle, I pull on the far tow point...idea being that I'm pulling into the frame instead of trying to pull (rip) the tow point away from the frame. Same thing for the jeep??? Since the clevises are both mounted to the overkill front bumper and it is bolted to the frame, does it matter which one I pull on? We've had a lot of tech talk about everything, how 'bout some of you fellas share your expert rigging advice... Oh and one more thing...I've been thinking about how I'm going to mount my winch when I get it...If i'm going to anchor the jeep so I can pull someone out, instead of transferring the stress through the winch into the frame and all the way back to the rear bumper (once again attached to the frame) is there a better way to transfer that stress??? Run a ___(cable/chain) from a custom winch mount to the rear of the jeep and pull on that?

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Old 04-29-2000, 03:11 PM
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Default Re: Rigging a chain, a cable, a tow strap, winches, and more...

Excellent questions! I'm gonna defer to more knowledgable people on most of this. Never used an elastic tow rope. Never had the need.

But I've done lots of pulling with farm tractors and heavy chain.

The way I always figured, you don't want to be wrapping chain over chain. You can get links kinked up and full tractor force will break damn near anything. And double wrapping anything, even if you don't cross the chain, is doubtful in my opinion.

If the chain you have is heavy enough for the job, one loop should do it. If it ain't heavy enough for the job, then go get one that is, regardless of inconvenience.

In terms of which clevis to use, I'd go with the far one, same theory you're using. But I'm not sure its good theory. I just know I feel better that way.

<font color=blue>Bone stock '81 CJ7,'96 ZJ.
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Old 04-29-2000, 05:00 PM
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Default Re: Rigging a chain, a cable, a tow strap, winches, and more...

[img]/wwwthreads_images/icons/crazy.gif[/img] Now yew boys is askin' some QUESTIONS! Yep....that's stuff that every dad-burned equipment guy needs to know, it don't matter if he's a dozer guy or pullin' out a stuck Suzuki. I JUST saw a chart for chaining up stuff, and it was very clear: If the chain goes past the drawbar pin and back to BOTH bumper hooks, it's like 8 Grand....if you loop it around the pin and to one bumper hook, it's 4 Grand and a "Z'd" truck frame[img]/wwwthreads_images/icons/crazy.gif[/img]..I cannot TELL you how many times I have had to get outa the cab and slosh through MUD[img]/wwwthreads_images/icons/frown.gif[/img]to re-hook because some dummy truck driver didn't get what I was telling him and hooked to only one side AFTER I gave him a bridle that was made especially for picking up both hooks with an equalizing roller for me to pull on. Pulling from the side is risky[img]/wwwthreads_images/icons/frown.gif[/img]unless you are using an equalizing bridle/roller arrangement. Yes...transferring the strain directly to the winch is a good way to go....even if it isn't a completely direct shot. it still helps. Out here we use two D9's and one D8 ahead of a deep subsoiler, and what we do is run a big cable from a clevis ON THE SUBSOILER SHANK....UNDER THE BACK 9...THROUGH A FREE LOOP UNDER THE DOZER TO THE DRAWBAR OF THE FRONT 9,THEN UNDER THE FRONT 9 THROUGH A FREE LOOP UNDER THE DOZER BLADE, AND TO THE DRAWBAR OF THE 8. That arrrangement keeps the strain off the frames of the tractors[img]/wwwthreads_images/icons/smile.gif[/img]OK...here's a question for you....[img]/wwwthreads_images/icons/wink.gif[/img]When choking to a log, tree, or other such thing, where you need the choking action, and cannot use the cable as a two-ended loose bridle, WHICH END OF THE SHACKLE goes in the loop? Does the pin go in the loop, and the moving line pass through the u-part of the shackle or is it the other way around? Does the line go past the pin and the u-part hook through the cable loop.[img]/wwwthreads_images/icons/crazy.gif[/img].....I'm not real crazy about chains, but they will do a better job when you have unusual hook-ups, and mud, slop, and cow crap doesn't bother them as much. Having an elastic section would be good. Did you know that ocean-going tugs use a rope section to go in the steel line for just that very reason.....it keeps the strain from "working" the purchases so darn hard in uneven seas.[img]/wwwthreads_images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

CJDave
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Old 04-30-2000, 12:07 PM
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Default Re: Rigging a chain, a cable, a tow strap, winches, and more...

1. I think the pin would go in the loop, and the moving part would go through the U of the clevis...you'd want the nice flat area to hook to, right???

2. Ok, so let's say farmjeep gets really buried, and I want to pull it out. What sort of "equalizing" chain do I need? The clevises are about 3' apart...so make a 5' chain with a hook on each end to grab the clevises and then what? How would I hook onto that chain? What is the equalizing roller you mentioned? How does it get rigged? If I'm only pulling a short distance, then hooking through one clevis, to the pulling vehicle, and then back to the other clevis (in a big U) works great...but what if I don't want to get anything quite that close to me and I don't have enough chain for a double run? How do I make the little U with the short chain at the clevises equalize the stress?

3. When the elastic section of the rigging (be it rope or yank strap) stretches, it stores energy. When it contracts, it releases that energy...as I understood it, the contraction and resulting release of energy makes a lot of force because the contracting happens quickly, compared to the stretching happening slowly. So would the peak force of a elastic section contracting be more than the peak force of a solid link? Or does the elasticity work differently than I understand it?

4. How do you turn with your cable rigging running under the dozers? If the turn wasn't entirely coordinated, you would run over cable, wouldn't you? And when you turn, if the cable is running under the middle dozer to the front dozer, aren't you putting a lot of torsional (side) stress on that middle feller?

5. Any ideas on how to transmit that stress through something other than the frame? Maybe run a cable alongside the frame on both sides and then bolt it to the rear bumper??? Or just have two loops hanging out under the rear bumper to hook to? Or something else???

6. We've never used cables for anything here in the farm...Perhaps you could provide a tutorial on the proper selection of cables...as I understand it there are a number of different types of cables (just as there are different grades of chain)...What should a fellow use?

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Old 05-01-2000, 02:05 PM
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Default Re: Rigging a chain, a cable, a tow strap, winches, and more...

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>

3. When the elastic section of the rigging (be it rope or yank strap) stretches, it stores energy. When it contracts, it releases that energy...as I understood it, the contraction and resulting release of energy makes a lot of force because the contracting happens quickly, compared to the stretching happening slowly. So would the peak force of a elastic section contracting be more than the peak force of a solid link? Or does the elasticity work differently than I understand it?

<hr></blockquote>

Neither, really. What happens is this: If you pull with a solid link (like a chain), your maximum pulling force is limited by your own traction. If you get a running start with a slack chain the shock load you'd get when the chain is pulled tight would almost certainly break something. Actually the peak force of the solid link would be greater, far greater, but of such a short duration you don't get any useful work out of it.

With an elastic strap, OTOH, you get a running start and stretch the strap. The force is at a maximum at the exact point where the pulling truck stops (maximum stretch). Now for the strap to contract (which it wants to do) one (or both) of the trucks has to move. The force required to get the pulling truck to move (force = mass x acceleration) is greater than just the traction of its tires, think of how much power it would take to accelerate a truck as fast as a yank strap can stop it..... that's how much power you can exert with a yank strap..... the energy stored by the yank strap is exactly the same as the energy used to stop the pulling truck.

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Old 05-01-2000, 03:15 PM
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Default Re: Rigging a chain, a cable, a tow strap, winches, and more...

[img]/wwwthreads_images/icons/smile.gif[/img] You get an "A" Farmjeep....although your reason is not exactly correct.....the reason that you NEVER use the live line past the screw pin is that it can cause rotation of the screw pin and maybe back it out, OR...it can screw it in so tight that your helper can't get it out without slogging thru the mud to get a crescent out of the tool box. I always used a short-bodied loose-pin clevis and I found a roller somewhere that had a nice diameter to it that went in the clevis for the equalizer. It worked on cable, chain, or rope. Here is the scoop on cable. Cable has GROUPS of strands, and NUMBERS of strands per group. If you want real durable cable that can take abuse over bad cleats, rough corners, and around odd shapes, you use FEW GROUPS....large strands per group. If you want a nice "ropey" cable that flows over sheaves nicely and off high speed drums well, you use MANY GROUPS with small strands per group. If you are using the "ropey" type of cable, just bending it around a corner will cause the cable to open up, so you need large dia sheaves. On my rig mainlines we used 27 group cable....very "ropey". The "ropey" cable takes good care of sheaves....much less wear....and coils well on the drums. The rougher cable is more "wirey" and it does wear the sheaves out more easily. On a dozer, you would use like a 14 group...or even less...it's a real abusive job.....lots of sheave pressure and lots of dirt too. You're right, we COULD NOT TURN those Cats....we only subsoiled in a straight line, and the turns were made with the shank out of the ground. EVEN THEN, everybody had to be paying attention. I still like the idea of a frame-relieving cable hookup if you are using the jeep for an anchored winch....the cable hooks to the winch mounts and goes out the back of the Jeep and is tied off to a deadman or whatever. That keeps the Jeep from having unusual stresses placed on the chassis.

CJDave
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Old 05-01-2000, 04:22 PM
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Default Re: Rigging a chain, a cable, a tow strap, winches, and more...

Does that equalizer pose any problems by merit of it making every pull an angle (side) pull on the hooks instead of a front pull? I imagine that this is counteracted because it cuts the stress on each hook in 1/2...is that right?

If I take a clevis with a pin that goes through it and is safety pinned on the far side instead of one that has a screw-in pin, could I use it for an equalizer without having the roller?

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Old 05-01-2000, 06:14 PM
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Default Re: Rigging a chain, a cable, a tow strap, winches, and more...

[img]/wwwthreads_images/icons/tongue.gif[/img] Answer to first question....yes.[img]/wwwthreads_images/icons/smile.gif[/img]......Then, just remember....the smaller the pin area, the more stress on the line. You should be using a "fat" something in there to help de-stress the chain, and help it equalize.[img]/wwwthreads_images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

CJDave
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