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Old 03-28-2010, 09:55 PM
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Default Heavy duty Power steering system and brakes UNIMOG JEEP mix

I have a cj 5 68 with unimog 404 axles under it with four link front and rear. I need to upgrade the brake system and power steering systme. Does anyone have any ideas? For brakes it would be great to get the pedel and master cylnder attached together such as my jeep has now becuase of fitting purpose. as far as steering goes i kbnow there are HD pumps, telico, PCS ect. But will it work on the mog axles the front is 550 lbs without tires, wheeles or fluid. Thanks for any help
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Old 03-29-2010, 06:21 AM
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Send a P.M. to BurnedBronco. He has a Jeep with Mogs. He may be able to give you some insight, but doesn't check in here very often. There are others here who run some pretty heavy stuff. They'll chime in soon.
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Old 03-29-2010, 08:21 PM
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For brakes you have lots of options, hydro boost out of an astro van, s10 booster, e350 van master cylinder, later model jeep booster, aftermarket manual master, there's lots of options out there.

For steering pump hot rodding a stock saginaw pump, aftermarket are all pretty decent. For boxes there's lots of options, waggy, durango, xj, cj/yj, scout 2/ ford.

There's about a million options, do some reading and come up with some more particular questions.
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Old 03-29-2010, 10:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cj68man View Post
I have a cj 5 68 with unimog 404 axles under it with four link front and rear. I need to upgrade the brake system and power steering systme. Does anyone have any ideas? For brakes it would be great to get the pedel and master cylnder attached together such as my jeep has now becuase of fitting purpose. as far as steering goes i kbnow there are HD pumps, telico, PCS ect. But will it work on the mog axles the front is 550 lbs without tires, wheeles or fluid. Thanks for any help
Is this off road only?
What are you running for brakes and steering right now?
What engine?
Tire size?
What are you looking for in the upgrades?

I've built several different brake and steering setups for Rockwells. Just not sure which way your wanting to go here.
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Last edited by Aaron871; 03-29-2010 at 10:20 PM.
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Old 03-30-2010, 02:19 AM
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to answer Aaron871's questions
yes it is off road only
I have 15 inch drumbrakes original unimog brakes not attached to anything. I have not tried to attach it to my stock cj master cylnder, it probally wont work.
I have a buick odd fire 77 231 v6 mated to an sm420 dana 18 and unimog 411 portal axles spinning 47 x 17 x17 ltb's.
Im looking for a steering sytem that will make it easier to turn with these heavy tires and more importantly no break and be abble to hold up to these type of forces. i have been bending mythe steering rod now so Illneed a stronger one of those as well.


I looked into poly performaces dual master cylnder single pedel brake systme, but this would still be non powered is that going to be enough power? And if i do want poer brakes are there multipleways of achieving this?

As far as steering it seems from the research I have done that a complet hydrallic conversion may not be the best, but rather a steering assit. I would most likely go with the PSC system does anyone have any advice on this system or others? How impotyant is it to run a new moddifed pump that is optional with their kit?
Thanks for any and all the help, josh
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Old 03-30-2010, 07:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cj68man View Post
to answer Aaron871's questions
yes it is off road only
I have 15 inch drumbrakes original unimog brakes not attached to anything. I have not tried to attach it to my stock cj master cylnder, it probally wont work.
I have a buick odd fire 77 231 v6 mated to an sm420 dana 18 and unimog 411 portal axles spinning 47 x 17 x17 ltb's.
Im looking for a steering sytem that will make it easier to turn with these heavy tires and more importantly no break and be abble to hold up to these type of forces. i have been bending mythe steering rod now so Illneed a stronger one of those as well.


I looked into poly performaces dual master cylnder single pedel brake systme, but this would still be non powered is that going to be enough power? And if i do want poer brakes are there multipleways of achieving this?

As far as steering it seems from the research I have done that a complet hydrallic conversion may not be the best, but rather a steering assit. I would most likely go with the PSC system does anyone have any advice on this system or others? How impotyant is it to run a new moddifed pump that is optional with their kit?
Thanks for any and all the help, josh


As for brakes. The drums will stop you but they are heavy and they get hot. Disk conversions at the wheel are about a thousand $$ but they also convert it to 8 lug. Pinion brake kits are about $400 for a kit but you can build your own if your creative. I've never had a 68 CJ, but I had a 67 Kaiser and I'll tell you that a 76 Corvette master cylinder bolts right up to it with no mods. If you do pinion brakes you don't want a power master cylinder (or at least you don't need one). The braking power of pinion brakes is amazing.

Steering. I would go full hydro if I were running 47's. Your options are infinite here. I use the hot rodded GM-P-pumps (ham can looking things), Dan-Foss or Charylinn orbitals and single ended rams. (My front steering is around $600 total) PSC is a great company, but you are buying the same stuff that you can get at Hydraulic Surplus .com. At PSC you are paying for customer service. I and many others are big fans of the single ended rams, if you notice there are a lot of pro rock racers using these at speeds over 100mph. The story about not being able to control it at speed is regurgitated internet crap. (Casey Currie ran a single ended ram at HOH this year, so did many others).

The orbital needs to match the ram to some extent, to make sure it's not to fast or slow. I use a 7.4 cu/in orbital and a 2x10 ram. I also have a 2x8 and a 2.25x8 that aren't bad either. Some guys are running dual stock GM pumps and some are running gear drive pumps. PSC and AGR pumps run almost the exact same PSI and GPM as a GM pump does.



I'm sure this didn't answer all of your questions......
:beer:
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Last edited by Aaron871; 03-30-2010 at 07:26 AM.
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Old 03-31-2010, 08:52 PM
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no it just makes more questions for me hahah. No i appreciate the help i follow what you are saying. So this entire week I have been debating weather or not to go full hydro or jsut assit. You say full hydro, thats not what i am hearing from most. I think most are telling me what will work, but I want what will be better. i understand how the PSC system works for steering assit, ive read up on it. Strauught hydruillic is a bit forighen to me. I can picture the system i my head....orbital? would you mind explaing the lay out so I cn know what I need to look for thank you so mcuh
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Old 03-31-2010, 09:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cj68man View Post
no it just makes more questions for me hahah. No i appreciate the help i follow what you are saying. So this entire week I have been debating weather or not to go full hydro or jsut assit. You say full hydro, thats not what i am hearing from most. I think most are telling me what will work, but I want what will be better. i understand how the PSC system works for steering assit, ive read up on it. Strauught hydruillic is a bit forighen to me. I can picture the system i my head....orbital? would you mind explaing the lay out so I cn know what I need to look for thank you so mcuh
Full hydro is easier. You don't have to deal with a drag link angle cumming from the gear box creating that big "scary steering" z-bar. You just mount a ram to the axle.

The layout:

Fluid comes from the pump to the orbital and returns to the pump. That is an open system. The orbital has 2 lines that go to the ram and route fluid to it in the direction and rate that wheel turns. The orbital has check valves in it so that if the pump isn't pumping, the wheel will still turn the tires. There is just no power assist. It's actually real simple.

So the orbital needs to be "open center". They are rated in cu/in, that will tell you how much fluid they push or "how fast" they are.

The ram and the orbital need to match to some extent. Figure out where your going to mount it and measure the "throw" of the tie rod from lock to lock as you manually turn the tires. That is the stroke that you need. The bore will be about 2" to 2.5" depending on your orbital and pump choice. The bigger the ram bore the faster the orbital needed to keep up with fluid/ revolution.

The pump can be anything from a stock GM (2-3 gpm) to a PSC to a gear pump as said above. If you go with a fast orbital and a large bore ram you will need a faster pump than the stock GM.


It can all be calculated to tell you what your steering will be lock to lock, I'll see if I can find the calculator.
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Old 03-31-2010, 09:17 PM
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Plug in calculator....

http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billav.../Steering.html

and this is more than you want to know.....

Pirate4x4.Com - Extreme Four Wheel Drive
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Old 04-06-2010, 03:10 PM
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Another thing, if you run assist you don't want a 4 link in the front. You want a pan hard bar in the same radius as the drag link or you will get bump steer in the suspension cycle.
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