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Jeep-Short Wheelbase All discussion of short wheelbase Jeeps: CJ, TJ, YJ

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  #1  
Old 11-06-2009, 11:25 PM
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Default 77 CJ5 Renegade w/304 and 3 spd.

I just got this Jeep. Now what? It has some rust that I will cut out and patch. The rear end is a AMC 20 with Moser axles and locked. I would like to put a 4 spd. with lower gears. What is the best swap? I would also like to have a full cage roll bar but not sure what kit to get. Any other suggestions are welcome. Thanks
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Old 11-07-2009, 04:37 AM
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Well, you asked two questions here that could be several pages of posts in themselves.

On the transmission front:

A wide ratio CJ T-18 is the ideal swap as it will bolt in and have the correct adapters. However, these are not real common and are highly sot after so they tend to be relatively expensive. There are other transmissions that will get you lower gears but will require extra parts as in a wide ratio scout T-18, which has other issues, or aftermarket adapters as in the Ford T-18 or NP435, GM SM465 or SM420. I would recomend you do some research into all of the above. Novak Jeep Conversions - Home is a good source of information on all of these. In any case you will need to get the drive lines lengthened on the front and shorten on the rear.

On the roll cage:

I would recommend a roll cage, but there are many details to consider. The first one is are you a good welder or know a friend who is. This will limit or open your options. There are many details of cage building. I can not help on sources as I plan to build my own. If you need a bolt in type cage then that is way different then to plan to buy a kit to weld in. Also you need to consider the type of wheeling and terrain you will be wheeling on. A cage that may do fine for rolling over once in a short steep area will likely come apart in a high speed racing crash or in multiple rolls down a long hill. However, a cage only needing to take one roll will be easier to make an not need as many members intruding into driver and storage space. You also need to consider how and if the cage will be tied to the frame, and how the seats and restraints will be attached. There are 2 schools of thought, and one common school of non-thought on this.

One is to tie the cage to the frame such that if the rig rolls it all stays togeather. Personally I like this idea. It prevents legs from possibly being trapped under the dash and allows the cage to be used to roll the Jeep up right after a roll over. The down side is that the frame tie ins can be a lot of work and often lead to the body being more tightly tied to the frame leading to more vibration when driving.

The second idea is to tie the seats and all restraint points to the cage but not tie the cage to the frame. In theory at least such a setup will lead to the cage posibly separating from the Jeep but keeping the driver safe in teh cage. However, the cage should not be used as a pull point as it is only tied to the body.

The last school of none-thought as I have called it is sadly the most common. It involves building a cage that maybe hell for stout in itself but will no thought to how it will stay or will of part from the frame and body. Often such setups involve the seats bolted to the body, the cage bolted to the body and the seat belts or other restraints bolted half to the body and half to the cage. Often not thought is given to how the cage will preform if it comes off the body part way or all together. Granted many such cages seem to do okay as most rolls are low speed rolls onto the side and even the stock roll bar often does okay in such cases. However, a cage makes people feel safer and take risks they other wise may not so it is best to think a cage design all the way through.
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Old 11-08-2009, 10:34 AM
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Thank you for the quick reply. Alot of information now to use. I did call around and found a 4 spd Ford T-18 out of 89' 1/2 ton with around 102000 miles, the price is $ 225.00. Is there anything else to look for? Such as different years, some better than others? Does the 4 spd always have the 1rst. gear low?

I am going to think more about the roll cage as far as which application would be best for me (you made some good points).

Last edited by 77 RENEGADE; 11-08-2009 at 11:21 AM.
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Old 11-08-2009, 01:17 PM
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I don't know about Ford versions in particular, but there are at least two gear sets in T18s. The desirable one has a 6.32:1 first gear. The other is four something. It's easy enough to tell while it's on the bench - put it in first and turn the input shaft while counting turns of the output.
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Old 11-08-2009, 06:35 PM
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To the best of my knowledge the T-18 only came in 2 gear ratios: (wide ratio) 6.32:1 and (narrow ratio) 4:1 first gear. Ford used only the wide ratio version, while Jeep and International used Both. I would not get that Ford T-18, the price is kind of high. At that price you can find another quickly so no rush to buy.

Don't get to excited about the price of the transmission you use. Look instead at total costs. Somethings to look into cost wise.
  1. Will the transmission bolt to my bell housing without adapters, if not what are the costs of adapters and or machine work?
  2. Are adapters made or needed to bolt the transmission to my transfercase if so what are the costs?
  3. Would I like to use a different transfer case if so what are the cost of adapters and transfer case?
  4. Will I need new drivelines with this new transmission if so what is the cost?
  5. What is the cost of the transmission?
  6. Will the length of the setup be acceptable or will it need a high angle rear drive line or lead to other problems?

So for example 1:
Lets say you find a CJ T-18 with adapters for $700 and you keep your current transfer case. Costs 1, 2, and 3 are $0. Cost 4 is some amount but in your case all swaps will need new drive lines so it will be the same for all options. Cost 5 is $700. Cost 6: should be short enough not to be a problem $0. So total cost $700 plus new drive lines.

Example 2:
You find a Ford NP435 for $100 and you keep your current transfercase.
Now you need to do some research. Cost 1: It will bolt to the bellhousing but need a special pilot bushing ~$20. Cost 2: Adapter ~$550. Cost 3: $0, Cost 4: same as example 1. Cost 5: $100. Cost 6: same as example 1.
Total cost $570 and drivelines.

Now keep in mind these are just examples and I more or less made up all the numbers. The real numbers will have to depend on what you can find in your area, and what the market is like now. It seems the recession has lowered prices on a lot of off road parts.

The best thing to do is figure out what it will take to swap many different transmissions, and then go shopping. If you try to buy the transmission before any research you are likely to end up with an expensive mess of parts, half of which are not usable in your build.
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