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09-29-2009, 11:52 AM
| | Newbie | | Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: El Campo Texas
Posts: 3
| |  welding front dff
i got a 79 cj5 and i am considering welding the front diff i pretty much know the pros and cons of the whole deal i got open diff all around right now and cant afford a locker i spend the majority of my offroad time in the mud or in sand i have manual hubs so when unlocked i should have no problems on street the wheels will just roll on the bearings i can pretty much go where ever i want to go in two wheel drive but when i need to lock her in its gonna get nasty i am aware of the difficult turning when locked but for the most part its a strait shot where ever i go and i have no problems turning now with out power steering i believe that in mud or sand when welded should be the same as an ox or arb i spend probably 50 percent of the miles on my jeep off highway anyhow and with no sway bars i keep her at 55 mph anyway some input will be very helpful in my decision
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09-29-2009, 12:29 PM
|  | Mud in my Veins | | Join Date: Apr 2000 Location: Winston-Salem, NC
Posts: 5,357
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maniacmechanic  i got a 79 cj5 and i am considering welding the front diff i pretty much know the pros and cons of the whole deal
<snip>
anyway some input will be very helpful in my decision | Well, what are you waiting on? 
When you decide it's time to weld, I'd recommend just burning the side/spiders together, as opposed to welding them together & then to the carrier. Yes it's weaker, but if they break or you decide it really *wasn't* the best choice for you... replace the side/spider gears and you're open again. Where the other option (welding sides/spiders to carrier) will require a different/new carrier + gear setup...
Tips about welding diffs...
- Take the carrier out... much easier to work with on all counts
- Clean ALL traces of gear oil FIRST (will likely take several cans of brake cleaner!)
- Shield/cover the bearings & ring gear from splatter (heavy AL foil works well)
- Any pre-heat is good (I "cooked" mine on a propane stove for 20 minutes prior to welding)
- Wrap it all up in an old blanket/towels afterwards to control the cooling (my rear welded to the carrier took 12+ hours to cool down)
OTOH, $200 would net you a lunchbox locker (locrite, EZ, Aussie) for either end that can be removed anytime & welding is PERMANENT...
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09-29-2009, 12:38 PM
| | Newbie | | Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: El Campo Texas
Posts: 3
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my intentions were to weld the sides to the spiders only for the same reason you mentioniond and im not to fond of the lunchbox lockers myself some people i know have them and have no problems and others do i guess its just a prefernce thing
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79 cj5 258I6 shaved head bigger valves header 4.10 33 12.5 bfg muds 2" shackle lift dual shocks engine oil cooler and reservoir 4 core aluminum radiator msd ignition  |
09-29-2009, 05:06 PM
|  | Can't Get Enough | | Join Date: Sep 1999 Location: The Plywood State.... Florida
Posts: 1,323
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Not to sound like a jerk, so please don't take it that way.
My opinion is that you should reconsider welding the front. Turning flat out sucks with the front welded. I have seen people spend the day not being able to make a simple turn without backing up pulling up and backing up again with welded front ends. I had a front locker bind up and not unlock one day and all day fighting turn thing. It sucks, it adds unnecessary strain on the front end, steering linkage (and box), power steering pump. It quickly gets old not being able to turn, pisses the guys in front of and behind you off because they have to wait for you. Unlocking the hubs to make a turn and relocking them if you think you will need the front end is a major hassle. Too much getting in and out.
Carver Dave nailed it. Follow his advice. Carry spare axles. Based on my experience, you'll need them.
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09-30-2009, 07:37 AM
| | Journeyman | | Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: cordova, Md
Posts: 132
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mini spool-$100
I would be surprised if anyone here advised welding the front. If I wanted full traction for cheap, I would consider a mini spool, assuming you could get one for your application.
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09-30-2009, 08:59 AM
| | Mud in my Veins | | Join Date: Apr 2000 Location: Winston-Salem, NC
Posts: 5,357
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cordova I would consider a mini spool, assuming you could get one for your application. | Since there are currently NO sources for a Dana30 "mini-spool", his options are still lunchbox or welding...
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09-30-2009, 05:06 PM
|  | Official Historian | | Join Date: Sep 1999 Location: Conway, AR
Posts: 8,008
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One more thing to consider. A rear locker helps much more than a front locker.
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"As the circle of my knowledge grows, so grows the circumference of the unknown." - Isaak Newton
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10-01-2009, 05:34 PM
|  | Old Hand | | Join Date: May 2006 Location: Nebraska
Posts: 649
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I have a Ausse in my TJ rear, adn its OK, when I can afford to, its gone and a selectable is going in. As for my Scrambler, My boss welded front and rear for me. Keep in mind My CJ is a dedicated trail jeep (and my trail is rivers) So I am generally in deep water, soft sand and mud. So far I havnt had a issue what so ever, even when driving it to the river and to the gas station. I ran mine few times this summer. Yes when Im in 4wd It is difficult to turn, but not getting stuck is well worth it. Further more I dont have issues with steering in 2wd.
Good luck
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10-02-2009, 09:37 AM
|  | Keyboard Implanted | | Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Winston-Salem, NC
Posts: 3,828
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before Caver has a chance to bust my balls on this one, No I haven't wheeled it since I welded the front 44 on mine... BUT Even in a gravel parking lot, it was a PITA to turn the wheels with both hubs locked in. I later had Hydraulic assist installed to counter the steering issues. cost of hydraulic Assist vs. locker, = or + than locker. Quote: |
im not to fond of the lunchbox lockers myself some people i know have them and have no problems and others do
| Of those that do, I'll go out on a limb and say maybe the installation wasn't up to snuff. or they weren't running within operational parameters for the locker. (i.e. tires size)
with all that said, IF this is a trail only rig, I say weld the rear and have fun. If that's already done and you are looking for even more traction, and your running 32" tires or smaller, Lunchbox locker. If larger tires, WELD IT, and when you keep breaking parts, then upgrade it. 
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10-02-2009, 09:59 AM
| | Mud in my Veins | | Join Date: Apr 2000 Location: Winston-Salem, NC
Posts: 5,357
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mbalbritton before Caver has a chance to bust my balls on this one, No I haven't wheeled it since I welded the front 44 on mine... BUT Even in a gravel parking lot, it was a PITA to turn the wheels with both hubs locked in. I later had Hydraulic assist installed to counter the steering issues. cost of hydraulic Assist vs. locker, = or + than locker. | Me? Bust on your "lawn art"? Nah!
Keep in mind some of the replies aren't exactly apples/apples comparisons to your setup.
- Brent's axle is a J-truck D44 (larger axle shafts & external hubs) & the tires are 36" bias Swampers (noticeably heavier than my 33" bias Swampers)...
- Regarding Jeepjunky's Scrambler & my Commando with welded rears... these are both 104" wheelbase Jeeps and probably are a LOT more forgiving than short wheelbase Jeeps. IOW, the length takes a welded diff better than a CJ5 w/ 2' less wheelbase. FWIW, mine has only recently started "chirping" the tires during slow tight turns (pulling onto the road, parking lots, etc), where my brothers CJ7 (spooled M20 rear) barks and "fights" ALL the time with the same 33" bias tires!
As said, locking/welding the rear will amaze you! I ran with the rear welded for 4-5 years (before lunchboxing the front) and the difference over open was night & day. If you don't *HAVE* to weld the front, do the rear and see how you like it first. It may provide all the traction your environment needs until you find the cash to lock the front...
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