Added Second Power Steering Pump for Winch

[bandhmo2]

Well things seem slow around here so I thought I would share last weekends project.

I added a second hydraulic (power steering) pump to power my new winch. I have yet to get a belt or put the pulley on as I still need to plumb the system and mount the winch. I also need to make some modifications to the power steering pump to increase flow at high RPM's and relieve flow when not in use. I will post pictures and explanation when I have it all apart, just waiting on some fittings to get started.

I think the neighbors thought I was even more nuts then normal as a beat the inside of the fender out to make some extra room. My york was on its side before and that just did not leave enough room so it will be up right now. I cut off part of the stock AC mount to lower the york about an inch so it will clear the hood. It will be close so I need to tap the side of the york and put flat plates over top suction and exhaust holes on the york. The whole thing would have been much easier if the holes in the power steerign pump where not metric, it only took 3 trips to the hardware store to get the right collection of length bolts. Getting the pulleys lined up right was a real pain. As was holding the pump in the right spot and tacking it in place. Seems to line up good though, sometimes when I look at it is is out just a hair one way and if I look again it looks to be out just a hair the other way. So I am calling it dead on.

On the whole I think it looks rather good, anyway here are some pictures.

[Jim_Lou]

It's too bad there's no room to put an AC pulley on the hydraulic pump.

[bandhmo2]

I thought about doing that. The problem was that the power steering pump is a straight press fit shaft and the yorks use a diapered bolt on shaft. I looked at getting a press on clutch but was finding them hard to find. I also thought about making an adapter but that would have required a lathe and having left the university I no longer have access to one.

Then I got to thinking that a power steering pump is good for turning for 1000's of miles so why not just let it turn but set it up to move less then the full flow through the system just like the stock pumps do. This would relieve pressure on the system and make the pump easy to turn, and let a little flow through the system to warm the fluid before use. Since I plan to modify the stock flow control valve this seemed like a good choice. Time will tell if this was a good idea though. I am still waiting (week and a half now) for the hydraulic fittings I ordered to ship, including the valve for the pump relief system. I want the valve before I tap the pump so I can mock things up first and keep the pumbing as clean as posible.

[Jim_Lou]

Yeah, that's probably a pretty good plan. It surprises me that you have to order hydraulic fittings. I would have guessed that with all the mining and oil patch suppliers there you could get just about any hydraulic part ever made.

[bandhmo2]

I probably should have looked locally for fittings given how long it took to get them (3 weeks) but they all showed up in the end.

Getting this thing put togeather has taken a lot of time partially due to my laziness and it is still not done but getting close. I just need to finish the return line and mount the cooler and fill it up.

Anyway here are some pictures of the progress.

Here is a picture of the winch with the valve attached only by hoses to find the ideal location to mount the valve.


This is the counter balance valve attached to the winch with the pilot line attached. A counter balance valve is like an advanced piloted check valve. It allows flow in one direction but stops it in the reverse unless pressure is applied to the pilot port. It also has a built in pressure relieve which I really do not need but the valve was cheap so I got it. The idea is that the winch will pull but even if all the hoses are cut will not let the load fall, unless pressure is applied to the pilot port. So if all goes according to plan I should be able to lift and set things down with the winch in a very controlled way.


Here is the winch mounted with valve/license plate mount. The valve handle will be moved to not stick out like in the pictures.


Here is the second power steering pump with a test fit of the belt. I still can't run the pump till I get the return line done and can add hydraulic fluid but at least I know i have the right length of belt. Also notice the plates blocking the top ports on the york. Mounting the york upright gives no extra room to the hood so I have taped the sides for suction and exhaust ports, I still need to redo the controls though.



The whole thing is almost done. I hope to finish this coming weekend, I will try to post some tests showing line speed if all goes well (which given the history of my Jeep projects it will it will just take much much much longer).

[Jim_Lou]

That looks llike a pretty good installation so far. Have you done calculations with pump volume and pressure, motor volume, RPM and things like that?

[bandhmo2]

The pump (ignoring internal losses) should put out 9.5 GPM at 2300 crank RPM, before the modified flow control valve opens. Milemarker claims the winch has a 14 cubic inch motor but when I go to White hydraulics web site and look up the motor they show it as 15.5 cubic inches. So using whites numbers for GPM to motor speed and an assumed 90% pump efficiency I should get about 20 feet per minute line speed with the winch in low and about 120 feet per minute in high, at 2300 RPM. According to calculation I will get the winches rated 9000lbs at 1200 psi.

Milemarkers numbers for there winches are rather optimistic. They rate them at 3.5 GPM and say they can run off of a standard power steering pump. The problem is that power steering pumps have a built in flow control valve which opens (according to my calculations though it really needs to be confirmed by testing as many assumptions need to be made) at 2.7 GPM. So right off the bat we need to lower there line speeds by about 25%. The up side is that the stock flow control valve should open at about 700 RPM so coming off ideal will not matter.

For this project I am trying to modify a stock Saginaw pump to put out more flow and not be limited by the flow control valve till higher RPM's. When I have the whole thing done and can confirm it works I will post details. I kind of hate to post what I have done to the pump till I can show it works as it is all based on calculations, and it would be nice to be able to back those with some experiments. Not that I have ever made an error in calculation

[Jim_Lou]

Does the PS pump really put out 1200 PSI? I wonder about the life of a vane pump running at that much pressure.

That prediction of 20 feet per minute seems mighty high for practical use. Even if reduced by 25% to 15 FPM it seems high. I often run my PTO winch in low gear at idle, at which speed a casual bystander might not even notice it's moving. It's quite helpful for moving heavy loads and positioning heavy objects.

To extricate the Jeep from a mud hole I use 3rd or 4th gear and a high idle. Although I've never measured the speed, that probably gives about 10FPM which is still slow for that application.

[bandhmo2]

Victory! I finally got some fluid and got it going. I do not have any speed numbers yet but ran the line in and out about 20 feet and at 1800 engine rpm I would not want it to be any faster. I did but the winch in high and low at the same time to lock it and got 1500 psi, so more then enough pressure. I may even back off the relieve valve some.

Tomorrow I will take it out the road and try to get some speed numbers with a few loads, but so far it is everything I had hoped. I will try to get some video of it in action.

[barrelroll]

Nice, i've also seen them setup with industrial and snow plow hydro pumps. Mile markers set up with stock pumps also running the steering suck in my oppinion, set up with a dedicated pump they kick butt.