Bad Luck... hole in bellhousing..

[Olin18]

I have had a pretty good string of bad Jeep luck over the last few days... last night it finished off with a bang!

A few days ago my jeep broke down (experenced a no start) about 45 miles from home. It's a long story... I was letting a family member borrow it while their auto was down for repair.

I made it down there yesterday to try and get it started and get it home. When I got there I found the starter to be the problem. The starter gear (turns the flywheel) was stuck extended, and would not turn. The whole thing looked to be bound up. I loosend up the starter bolts, and the gear retracted like it is suposed to.

I figured this was good luck (I was so wrong) I figured maybe the starter would give me one more start so I could drive the Jeep home. I tightened the starter bolts back down, and started the Jeep...

The jeep started fine but there was a horrible rattling and bang-ing noise. (coming form the starter/ bellhousing) area. I shut the jeep off as fast as I could and got back under it... What I saw gave me that bad pit of the stomach feeling. There was a small hole punched in the bottom of my (AL) bellhousing.
It would seem that when the starter "broke" there must have been somthing that came off the starter shaft and feel behind the flywheel. I think when the motor started what ever it was that fell back there got caught up in the flywheel got bound up between the flywheel and bellhousing and cracked the bellhousing.

What a huge bummer
The motor in question is a 350, hooked to a SM465. The starter only has 6000 miles on it.

[Jim_Lou]

Ah, no worries, Mate! That's easy to weld up. I've done several and only charged $20 or $30 to strangers. The worst of it is that it would be very difficult to do while it's in the Jeep. Besides having to work overhead, the bell is probably saturated with oil. When aluminum is like that one needs to keep going over the area cooking it until the bubbling stops.

The starter drive on my 258 is kind of delicate. Twice it's been destroyed by engaging the starter while the motor is still turning after a failed start. Now I'm very careful to avoid that, but carry a spare drive in the console anyway.

[mbalbritton]

yep, I busted a big chunk off my bellhousing. One of the Ears that has a mounting hole on it. Took it to my buddy, he handed me the scrub brush and cleaner and told me to get to work. I cleaned it to his liking and a few minutes on the tig and it was better than new. Been on there several years since.

[Olin18]

This break could be a lot worse for sure. I am hopping to go and get the jeep some time this week and get it home by this weekend.

I think before I take the whole drive train apart I am going to try and fish the broken "stuff" out of the bellhousing, put on a new starter and see if I can find someone local that might be willing to try and weld the bellhousing while it is still in the jeep. The location of the hole is at least close to the bottom where it is pretty easy to get to. It is not up near the tub. If I can find someone willing to try that I would like to make it through the summer. Then in the fall/ winter maybe I will pull the transmission off if I need to.
I figure if it doesn't work, or I can't find anyone to do the welding for me I won't really loose out on much.... I'll have to take it apart anyway.

Anyone have a good trick to get "stuff" out of the bellhousing? I was thinking maybe a magnet on a string, or the shop-vac hooked to a hose small enought to get in there.

Any Ideas.... Ether way it doesn't look like I am going to have a working jeep for the upcoming holiday weekend.... bummer.

[lomodyj]

Originally Posted by mbalbritton

Been on there several years since.

But your Jeep has seen more miles on my trailer when you moved than it has road miles in the last 3 or so years...

[Jim_Lou]

A magnet on a string will get the ferrous stuff out if you can keep it from sticking to the clutch cover. A small magnet on a flexible wand would work better. If there are chunks of aluminum in there a magnet obviously won't work, but the vacuum might. Do you have to work through the broken-out hole?

[sourpwr]

Originally Posted by Olin18

Anyone have a good trick to get "stuff" out of the bellhousing?

Does your bellhousing have an inspection port? If so, you should be able to remove the inspection plate to get to the inside of the bellhousing.

-- mike

[RickCJ7]

Sorry to hear about all this bad luck for you.

I'm not familiar with a SM465, but I am guessing that is a automatic transmission.
How big is the hole? Is it big enough that the loose piece(s) came out? Are there cracks related to the hole? Is the hole & cracks close to any mounting points that carry any weight or stress?

Where I am headed with those questions is that maybe it doesn't need to be welded, at least not right away. Sure, welding is the desired permanent fix. May be drill the hole to be (barely) big enough to fish around for loose pieces. Maybe fishing through the starter hole will work.

For an automatic transmission the bell housing has just a few things to do.
1. It hold the engine and transmission together. If the hole is not close to a load bearing mount point then the hole doesn't affect this.
2. It keeps all the possible kinds of stuff (including fingers) away from the flex plate and torque converter, so that they don't get wedged into a bad place (you know how that turns out). The hole does affect this, so maybe you just need to fashion some kind of a plug.
3. Since there is such rare need to service the flex plate or torque converter without the transmission needing service too, there usually aren't any access panels. When I helped a friend rebuild his IH Scout engine, there was an access panel for the lower front of the bellhousing so that we could get to the four bolts between the flex plate and torque converter. So take a close look to make sure you didn't overlook an access panel somewhere.
4. It contains the parts when something breaks, or at least slows them down before they fly out and hit your feet.

Take some deep breaths and don't hurry through a repair. Good luck.

[Olin18]

I wish that when I had gone to work on my jeep I had brought my camera so I had a pic of the damage. I have been asking around to some people I know about welding it, and without a pic it is hard to get a feel for the ability of the repair.
The hole is not big. It looks like somthing was pushing really hard on the inside of the housing and the AL kind of ripped. The actual hole is not even big enough to put a screw driver through. The rips in the AL extend back maybe 3/4-1.25" There is 3 or 4 of them.
Like I said, this could be much worse. The hole is not near any of the mounting locations, it is pretty out in the open. As long as I can get all the "Stuff" out of there I think that it should be fixable without taking everything apart... time will tell.

My bellhousing does not have an inspection cover on it (I wish it did, that would make this porject much easier), I will have to work throught the hole for the starter. I didn't really think about a magnet on a flex cord. I think I have seen those before at the local parts store. That's a great Idea.

When I was collecting parts for my Jeep build I got the bellhousing on my jeep for Free. I bought the Transmission from a guy (the SM465 is a manual 4-speed) and he gave me the bellhousing for free because he forgot to take it off before I came to pick up the trans. One of the guys who helped me assemble the motor on my jeep suggested to me that I get a better bellhousing. He told me a steel one would be a better option, and he said it was nice to have one with an inspection cover. I decided to save the money on the bellhousing and I just used what I had. This has been a lesson learned. I wish I would have spent just a few bucks on the bellhousnig he reccomended to me. Probably could have gotten it at a junk yard for no more than $40 I bet.

If I had to do this over, or if anyone ever askes me I will recommend spending the money on a good bellhousing.

If my clutch ever comes apart I don't have a lot of faith in the fact that my bellhousing will keep in inside.

Thanks for the suggestions, and that flex magnet is a good one. I am going to get one of those...

when I get the jeep home I will try and get a photo

[mbalbritton]

Originally Posted by lomodyj

But your Jeep has seen more miles on my trailer when you moved than it has road miles in the last 3 or so years...

stop polluting others tech threads... I was wonder if it was going to be you or Dave that was going to run his mouths first.