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post #1 of (permalink) Old 07-13-2002, 06:44 PM
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RED ALERT! Roadless Rule HR4865

Subject: RED ALERT! Roadless Rule HR4865

Representative Jay Inslee (D-WA) will offer an amendment next week to codify
the illegal Clinton Roadless regulation that locked up 58.5 million acres of
public land. We will be in DC next week lobbying to defeat this measure.
In the meantime, a draft letter opposing this bill is attached in a MS word
file to this memo. Please consider faxing and emailing a copy of this letter to your
representative(s). Go to Alliance for America's web site
click on the Government bottom to find your representatives fax numbers and email.

1. Contact your members of the House and urge them to vote NO in the
Inslee roadless amendment. Use the sample letter below.

2. Urge our friends to take the floor or speak out and argue against
the Inslee roadless amendment.

3. Half of the acres covered by the roadless rule are at risk to
catastrophic fire. The Clinton-era roadless rule makes treatment of these
areas a low priority. Already this year, fires that have started in
Roadless Areas have destroyed hundreds of thousands of acres and burned
several hundred homes.

4. Legislating on the roadless issue is a clear attempt to
short-circuit the judicial process and prevent the Bush administration from
acting to correct the obvious flaws in the rule.

5. Legislating the roadless rule would exacerbate the forest health
crisis and increase the threat of catastrophic wildfires in and around
roadless areas.

6. A federal judge in Idaho said the rule was adopted in "clear
violation" of NEPA and other landmark environmental laws.

7 The Roadless rule is the subject of more than half a dozen lawsuits
in four Federal district courts.

Representative Jay Inslee (D-WA) has introduced H.R. 4865, which would
codify the Clinton Administration Roadless Initiative and put 58.5 million
acres of National Forest Land Roadless Areas "off-limits" to multiple-use.
The Inslee bill has 179 cosponsors and will be introduced as an amendment to
the Interior Appropriations Bill to halt funding for projects in roadless
areas. The Interior Appropriations Bill will be on the House floor next

Share this message with your friends and family. Encourage them to make phone calls
and send faxes and/or email messages opposing HR4865.
Thanks for your effort.

Rose Comstock-Correira
Alliance for America


Dear Members of Congress:

Please vote against Representative Jay Inslee's (D-WA) roadless area amendment to codify the Clinton Administration's illegal roadless area regulation. The amendment put 58.5 million acres of National Forest Roadless Areas "off-limits" to multiple-use. With the devastating fires we have already witnessed this summer, we need to maintain the ability to manage our lands and defend against fires including those found in Roadless Areas.

In addition to losing the ability to manage lands in Roadless Areas, a Federal District Court Judge has determined this administrative rule is illegal. This case is currently on appeal in the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals and there are numerous other roadless rule cases in courts across the country. It is not the time or the place for Congress to circumvent ongoing judicial proceedings. Any legislation on the roadless issue is a clear attempt to short-circuit the judicial process and prevent the Bush Administration from acting to correct the obvious flaws in the rule.

Half of the acres covered by the rule are at risk to catastrophic fires. The Clinton rule/Inslee amendment makes treatment of these areas a low priority and almost impossible. Already this year, fires that have started in roadless areas have destroyed hundreds of thousands of acres and burned several hundred homes. Passing a Roadless Area Rider would exacerbate the forest health crisis and increase the threat of catastrophic wildfires in and around roadless areas.

We urge you to vote NO on the Inslee roadless amendment because it is the right thing for the health of our nation's forests and sound public and environmental policy.


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post #2 of (permalink) Old 07-13-2002, 07:10 PM
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Re: RED ALERT! Roadless Rule HR4865

Just sent mine to Rep. Tom Udall, here it is:

Dear Representative Udall:

I am urging you to vote NO on HR 4865. This bill was a bad idea when President Clinton came up with it, and it is still a bad idea. Locking up over 58 million acres is not the way to manage our forests, especially with the risks of wildfire as high as they are, and they are only going to get higher without access. Fully half of the acreage covered by this bill are in danger of catastrophic wildfire, and the passage of this bill would only make it more difficult to manage those lands.

The original Rule was found to be in violation of NEPA and other laws, so passing the Rule as a Bill is just furthering the violation. It is up to you to stop this now, it is common sense NOT to vote for this bill.

With the public rapidly being educated the summer on the mismanagement of our forests, furthering the mismanagement with HR 4865 is NOT what your constituents want. Any Congress People that vote for this bill are in danger of being lumped in with what the public is beginning to see are environmental whackos and extremists.

Representative Udall, please do the RIGHT thing for the health of our forests and vote NO on HR4865, The Roadless Rule.

Thank You,

Brad Ullrich
post #3 of (permalink) Old 07-13-2002, 07:25 PM
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Re: RED ALERT! Roadless Rule HR4865

Hey, don't fight it! Don't thin out the forests! Let the dead trees fall to the ground and dry out! Don't provide any access roads! Then one small lightning strike and these western states can burn to the ground! Too bad they will use my tax money to fight the blaze though.

I don't feel the least bit of sympathy for California, Oregon or Washington and only very little for Colorado. As a matter of fact when I have my way and about 45 states succeed from the Union, the first three are not welcome in the new confederacy. Hawaii and New York are blackballed too.

I also think it's about time some of the federal lands go up for sale until the national debt is paid off.
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post #4 of (permalink) Old 07-13-2002, 09:45 PM
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Re: RED ALERT! Roadless Rule HR4865

What's wrong with Hawaii? I've lived here for 5 years, and I could spend the rest of my life here.

post #5 of (permalink) Old 07-14-2002, 01:40 AM
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Re: RED ALERT! Roadless Rule HR4865

Hawaii sucks too much tax money from the federal government. Does Hawaii not have interstate highway and how can that be explained given the definition of the prefix "inter"? Did they change the law so that any American can own land there or is that privilege still restricted to native Hawaiians? I haven't been paying attention. I also believe that the fear of hurting the Hawaiian tourist trade is the primary reason we continue our policy on Cuba.

Given the Fed's love affair with Hawaii, as long as we leave them that, they might let the rest of us go without too much opposition. Nothing personal, I just don't like the politics involved. I'm sure we owed Hawaii something for FDR using them for the sacrificial lamb to get involved in WWII, but that debt cannot go on forever.
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post #6 of (permalink) Old 07-15-2002, 12:27 PM
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Re: RED ALERT! Roadless Rule HR4865

Just curious, but what's wrong with Oregon and Washington?
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post #7 of (permalink) Old 07-15-2002, 03:41 PM
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Re: RED ALERT! Roadless Rule HR4865

Here is a complete list and the date they signed on of all 177 Co-Sponsors of the Roadless Conspiracy, HR4865 which in all likelihood will go to a vote this week. If your Rep. is on here, HAMMER him or her, if not, still contact your Rep. to vote NO!

Rep Acevedo-Vila, Anibal - 6/5/2002 Rep Ackerman, Gary L. - 6/5/2002
Rep Allen, Thomas H. - 6/5/2002 Rep Andrews, Robert E. - 6/5/2002
Rep Baca, Joe - 6/5/2002 Rep Baldacci, John Elias - 6/5/2002
Rep Baldwin, Tammy - 6/5/2002 Rep Becerra, Xavier - 6/5/2002
Rep Bentsen, Ken - 6/5/2002 Rep Berkley, Shelley - 6/5/2002
Rep Berman, Howard L. - 6/5/2002 Rep Blagojevich, Rod R. - 6/5/2002
Rep Blumenauer, Earl - 6/5/2002 Rep Boehlert, Sherwood L. - 6/5/2002
Rep Bonior, David E. - 6/5/2002 Rep Borski, Robert A. - 6/5/2002
Rep Boucher, Rick - 6/5/2002 Rep Brown, Corrine - 6/5/2002
Rep Brown, Sherrod - 6/5/2002 Rep Capps, Lois - 6/5/2002
Rep Capuano, Michael E. - 6/5/2002 Rep Cardin, Benjamin L. - 6/5/2002
Rep Carson, Julia - 6/5/2002 Rep Clay, Wm. Lacy - 6/5/2002
Rep Clayton, Eva M. - 6/5/2002 Rep Clement, Bob - 6/5/2002
Rep Clyburn, James E. - 6/5/2002 Rep Condit, Gary A. - 6/5/2002
Rep Conyers, John, Jr. - 6/5/2002 Rep Costello, Jerry F. - 6/19/2002
Rep Coyne, William J. - 6/11/2002 Rep Crowley, Joseph - 6/5/2002
Rep Cummings, Elijah E. - 6/5/2002 Rep Davis, Danny K. - 6/5/2002
Rep Davis, Jim - 6/5/2002 Rep Davis, Susan A. - 6/5/2002
Rep Davis, Tom - 7/9/2002 Rep DeFazio, Peter A. - 6/5/2002
Rep DeGette, Diana - 6/5/2002 Rep Delahunt, William D. - 6/5/2002
Rep DeLauro, Rosa L. - 6/5/2002 Rep Deutsch, Peter - 6/5/2002
Rep Dingell, John D. - 6/11/2002 Rep Doggett, Lloyd - 6/5/2002
Rep Engel, Eliot L. - 6/5/2002 Rep Eshoo, Anna G. - 6/5/2002
Rep Evans, Lane - 6/5/2002 Rep Farr, Sam - 6/5/2002
Rep Fattah, Chaka - 6/5/2002 Rep Ferguson, Mike - 6/5/2002
Rep Filner, Bob - 6/5/2002 Rep Ford, Harold, Jr. - 6/5/2002
Rep Frank, Barney - 6/5/2002 Rep Gilchrest, Wayne T. - 6/5/2002
Rep Gonzalez, Charles A. - 6/5/2002 Rep Gordon, Bart - 6/5/2002
Rep Green, Gene - 6/5/2002 Rep Greenwood, James C. - 6/5/2002
Rep Gutierrez, Luis V. - 6/5/2002 Rep Hall, Tony P. - 6/5/2002
Rep Harman, Jane - 6/5/2002 Rep Hastings, Alcee L. - 6/5/2002
Rep Hill, Baron P. - 6/5/2002 Rep Hilliard, Earl F. - 6/5/2002
Rep Hinchey, Maurice D. - 6/5/2002 Rep Hoeffel, Joseph M. - 6/5/2002
Rep Holt, Rush D. - 6/5/2002 Rep Honda, Michael M. - 6/5/2002
Rep Hooley, Darlene - 6/5/2002 Rep Horn, Stephen - 6/5/2002
Rep Hoyer, Steny H. - 6/5/2002 Rep Israel, Steve - 6/5/2002
Rep Jackson, Jesse L., Jr. - 6/5/2002 Rep Jackson-Lee, Sheila - 6/5/2002
Rep Jefferson, William J. - 6/5/2002 Rep Johnson, Eddie Bernice - 6/5/2002
Rep Johnson, Nancy L. - 6/5/2002 Rep Jones, Stephanie Tubbs - 6/5/2002
Rep Kaptur, Marcy - 6/5/2002 Rep Kelly, Sue W. - 6/5/2002
Rep Kennedy, Patrick J. - 6/5/2002 Rep Kildee, Dale E. - 6/5/2002
Rep Kilpatrick, Carolyn C. - 6/5/2002 Rep Kind, Ron - 6/5/2002
Rep Kirk, Mark Steven - 6/5/2002 Rep Kleczka, Gerald D. - 6/5/2002
Rep Kucinich, Dennis J. - 6/5/2002 Rep LaFalce, John J. - 6/5/2002
Rep Lampson, Nick - 6/5/2002 Rep Langevin, James R. - 6/5/2002
Rep Lantos, Tom - 6/5/2002 Rep Larsen, Rick - 6/5/2002
Rep Larson, John B. - 6/5/2002 Rep Leach, James A. - 6/5/2002
Rep Lee, Barbara - 6/5/2002 Rep Levin, Sander M. - 6/5/2002
Rep Lewis, John - 6/5/2002 Rep LoBiondo, Frank A. - 6/5/2002
Rep Lofgren, Zoe - 6/5/2002 Rep Lowey, Nita M. - 6/5/2002
Rep Luther, Bill - 6/5/2002 Rep Lynch, Stephen F. - 6/5/2002
Rep Maloney, Carolyn B. - 6/5/2002 Rep Maloney, James H. - 6/5/2002
Rep Markey, Edward J. - 6/5/2002 Rep Matsui, Robert T. - 6/5/2002
Rep McCarthy, Carolyn - 6/5/2002 Rep McCarthy, Karen - 6/5/2002
Rep McCollum, Betty - 6/5/2002 Rep McDermott, Jim - 6/5/2002
Rep McGovern, James P. - 6/5/2002 Rep McKinney, Cynthia A. - 6/5/2002
Rep McNulty, Michael R. - 6/5/2002 Rep Meehan, Martin T. - 6/5/2002
Rep Meek, Carrie P. - 6/5/2002 Rep Meeks, Gregory W. - 6/5/2002
Rep Menendez, Robert - 6/5/2002 Rep Millender-McDonald, Juanita - 6/5/2002
Rep Miller, George - 6/5/2002 Rep Mink, Patsy T. - 6/5/2002
Rep Moore, Dennis - 6/5/2002 Rep Moran, James P. - 6/5/2002
Rep Morella, Constance A. - 6/5/2002 Rep Nadler, Jerrold - 6/5/2002
Rep Napolitano, Grace F. - 6/5/2002 Rep Neal, Richard E. - 6/5/2002
Rep Norton, Eleanor Holmes - 6/5/2002 Rep Olver, John W. - 6/5/2002
Rep Owens, Major R. - 6/5/2002 Rep Pallone, Frank, Jr. - 6/5/2002
Rep Pascrell, Bill, Jr. - 6/5/2002 Rep Pastor, Ed - 6/5/2002
Rep Payne, Donald M. - 6/5/2002 Rep Pelosi, Nancy - 6/5/2002
Rep Price, David E. - 6/5/2002 Rep Rahall, Nick J., II - 6/5/2002
Rep Ramstad, Jim - 6/5/2002 Rep Rangel, Charles B. - 6/5/2002
Rep Reyes, Silvestre - 6/5/2002 Rep Rivers, Lynn N. - 6/5/2002
Rep Roemer, Tim - 6/19/2002 Rep Rothman, Steve R. - 6/5/2002
Rep Roukema, Marge - 6/5/2002 Rep Roybal-Allard, Lucille - 6/5/2002
Rep Rush, Bobby L. - 6/5/2002 Rep Sabo, Martin Olav - 6/5/2002
Rep Sanchez, Loretta - 6/5/2002 Rep Sanders, Bernard - 6/5/2002
Rep Sawyer, Tom - 6/5/2002 Rep Schakowsky, Janice D. - 6/5/2002
Rep Schiff, Adam B. - 6/5/2002 Rep Scott, Robert C. - 6/5/2002
Rep Serrano, Jose E. - 6/5/2002 Rep Shays, Christopher - 6/5/2002
Rep Sherman, Brad - 6/5/2002 Rep Simmons, Rob - 6/5/2002
Rep Slaughter, Louise McIntosh - 6/5/2002 Rep Smith, Adam - 6/5/2002
Rep Smith, Christopher H. - 6/5/2002 Rep Solis, Hilda L. - 6/5/2002
Rep Stark, Fortney Pete - 6/5/2002 Rep Tauscher, Ellen O. - 6/5/2002
Rep Thompson, Bennie G. - 6/5/2002 Rep Tierney, John F. - 6/5/2002
Rep Towns, Edolphus - 6/5/2002 Rep Udall, Mark - 6/5/2002
Rep Velazquez, Nydia M. - 6/5/2002 Rep Visclosky, Peter J. - 7/9/2002
Rep Waters, Maxine - 6/5/2002 Rep Watson, Diane E. - 6/5/2002
Rep Watt, Melvin L. - 6/5/2002 Rep Waxman, Henry A. - 6/5/2002
Rep Weiner, Anthony D. - 6/5/2002 Rep Wexler, Robert - 6/5/2002
Rep Woolsey, Lynn C. - 6/5/2002 Rep Wu, David - 6/5/2002
Rep Wynn, Albert Russell - 6/5/2002
post #8 of (permalink) Old 07-15-2002, 05:00 PM
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Re: RED ALERT! Roadless Rule HR4865

<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr>

Just curious, but what's wrong with Oregon and Washington?


When I saw your location in your profile, I stared to respond with, "You'd know more about that than I would.", or maybe just, "Come on now, you're kidding right?", but then I noticed your age.

Oregon is the spotted owl state. That's what started a lot of the save the forest and anti-logging movements. Washington was soon to follow, my memory is a little hazy here but I think it concerned a beetle and a woodpecker or something.

I remember Tina Louise (Ginger Grant from Gilligan's Island) in television commercials preaching the banning of fluorocarbons in Oregon in the '70s. Right, wrong, or indifferent, I'm associating Washington with the Greenpeace "Save the Whales" and some fights over water reservoirs for some ugly fish. Don't even think about using that water to fight the forest fires.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not anti-environment, I just have a big problem with the radical wackos that carry things to extremes. The sad part is a lot of the people involved in these groups don't even believe in their causes, they just enjoy getting in on the clout these groups have enjoyed. In the '60s (even that part that didn't happen until the '70s), there was a lot of my generation dressing as hippies and pretending to be anti-war just to get girls and/or be accepted into the drug scene.

My views on these things is best summed up in a line from the movie Trading Places. Coleman, masquerading as a priest, replies to Beeks, who has challenged his drinking from a pocket flask, "Everything taken in moderation." I'm sure somebody said it before then, I just don't know who. Whether we allow the old logging practices of stripping out entire forests or let them burn because of failure to maintain them or provide access, the result is the same.

If you want to flame me through attacks on my state, let me give you a head start. I'm from Kansas, we're so behind the times here that we just got around to the issue of teaching evolution vs. creation in schools last year. I didn't mean to insult anyone on the list with my remarks about these states, it's your radical neighbors I have the problem with. I'm always commenting lately that I'm glad that I don't have many years of life left to see the harvest of some of the political crops that are being sown. If some people don't speak up, all those classic flat fendered Jeeps are going to have to be converted to electric or used as planters. That is if somebody doesn't manage to scrap them for a few pollution credits.

For any further comments, cjjeepercreeper might appreciate us starting a new thread and leaving this one alone. I'll be happy to respond. It's important to realize how all this got started to keep it in bounds.
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