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Old 12-11-2002, 09:03 PM
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Default Mud tires in the snow...is this bad?

Hi Folks
Just wanted to get some opinions from anybody who has had mud tires in the snow. I just bought and installed a set of 33x12.50x15 Mud Kings on my truck, and I've already been warned twice not to try and run them in the winter....whats up with that? Are they that bad? I'd like to know before I sell my 31" ATs on spare rims, they'll come in handy If I need them. One guy told me that Mud tires, because they're wide, will actually hydroplane on the snow...WTF??? Anybody have any thoughts on this? I've got 4 monthes of winter starting now.....what should I do? Throw the 31" ATs back on for now? Thanks folks.
Rembrant
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Old 12-11-2002, 09:13 PM
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Default Re: Mud tires in the snow...is this bad?

i was always told that wider is good for sand and skinny is good for snow. i have 31"x10.50's on now until winter is over....then the 33"x12.50's go on
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Old 12-11-2002, 09:52 PM
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Default Re: Mud tires in the snow...is this bad?

Sand and snow are kinda alike, you want to float on both of them not dig. Just like ATs work better in the sand the ATs wil work better on the snow because you will float. The problem with MTs in the snow is that they want to dig and thow stuff, not helpful when trying to float. MTs also don't get very good tractionin the rain on wet pavement so add some slushy water in there and you can see what would happen.
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Old 12-11-2002, 10:58 PM
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Default Re: Mud tires in the snow...is this bad?

Snow and packed snow/ice are totally different. On ice, you want biting edges! Sipes are where its at on the ice. A mud tire is designed with big tread voids for good self cleaning ability. In snow, as in powder snow, you can either float, or use pizza cutters to try to get down to some traction.
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Old 12-11-2002, 11:43 PM
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Default Re: Mud tires in the snow...is this bad?

For daily driving on icy, snowy, slushy roads, MT's ain't the #1 choice. They don't pack up with snow like the AT's or car tires do, which provides a sorta "snow adhesive" to the road surface. AT's and car tires tend to have a lot of sipes too, which MT's usually don't have many of, and I know your's don't have any. If you want to keep the 33's on, I'd say get them siped. That always helps. If you don't know what it is, do a search over the whole forum for "siping" and "sipe". Narrower is better on the icy roads though. Less contact area means more psi on the ground. If you still have the gearing for the 31's, keep them on for the winter.
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Old 12-12-2002, 05:48 AM
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Default Re: Mud tires in the snow...is this bad?

hat is like asking "what came first the chicken or the egg"? there are an enormous amount of variables, the type of snow that is laying on the ground, is it wet or is it dry, how deep, whats the sustained ambient air temperature, did the snowflakes fall as a powder or big puffy flakes , etc. the snow around here is generally big puffy flakes with an ambient air temperature around 30 degrees ,it usually falls on wet ground . with this sort of fresh snow a/t tires work as good or better than the m/t's . after a few days of temperatures fluctuating above and below freezing , the snow turns to exactly the type of ice snow cones are made of. Cascade Concrete" this is where the open lugs of the m/t's do there stuff. the a/t's just fill up with the ice crystals and turn into spinning ice cubes . .... i have always been under the impression that the bigger the contact patch of your tire the more area you have to transmit your braking force to the road surface. try riding your ten speed down a icy hill and getting it to stop.[img]images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] after you get out of the hospital, put a set of 12.50 inch wide tires on it and try it again . i bet you can get it to stop with the bigger contact patch of the 12.50" tires. . i would sipe the inner lugs of your new tires and call it good . here is a pretty informative thread on the subject ....hope this helps.. Von Warner http://bbs.off-road.com/ubbthreads/s...amp;PHPSESSID=
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Old 12-12-2002, 07:58 AM
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Default Re: Mud tires in the snow...is this bad?

Vonwarner
Good point, I just kind of rounded up all the types of snow into just snow...he he he. Actually we get every possible combination there is, from light, deep and puffy, to black ice, sleet, slush, packed, etc. Its different every other day once the winter is upon us. theres actually 6" on the way this morning..."heavy snowfall warning in effect", but theres gonna be rain for desert right behind it...LOL. To tell you the truth, I've already been out in out first storm with them, and found them fine, but that was with semi packed dry snow....so I guess we'll see what happens. the tread pattern on my ATs isn't that great, so I'm gonna take my chances for now. I know the pizza cutter style tires are great, but I don't like them. I once drove a whole winter in a 2wd ford stepside with a set of bald 275/60/15s on it, and I still survived...he he he, you just had to plan ahead wherever you went, to make sure it wasn't uphill getting out...LOL. Thanks for the input guys, its just what I wanted.
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Old 12-12-2002, 10:06 AM
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Default Re: Mud tires in the snow...is this bad?

Maybe I'm a bit late on this conversation, but I ran unsiped 31x10.5x15 mud tires on my '82 for two winters (didn't learn from the first winter) and nearly got killed about four times (could have been more if not being a heck of a good driver [img]images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]) because I had no stopping power on ice, and my rear brakes would easily lock up and turn me sideways (rear ABS will keep you straight when sliding to a stop). I got turned sideways on the highway too going "slowly" at 100 kph - my front tow hook saved my truck from some expensive body damage when I hit the concrete side barrier head-on.

That's my caution to anyone who doesn't want to drive v-e-r-y carefully with mud tires in the winter. Sipe the mud tires, and s-l-o-w down your pace ALL the time because you don't know where that black ice is going to be.
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Old 12-12-2002, 11:12 AM
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Default Re: Mud tires in the snow...is this bad?

ok folks - no big secret, I run the ice roads up North as winter trek runs...so here's my $0.02

BVM - you're partially right. on deep snow (18"+), wide, and float is good. as has been mentioned, its very much like sand..but more so ( you dont often see sand runners go 3 feet down into the sand - I've seen quite a few trucks do that in snow) for the record, ruber will not stick to snow..snow tires are designed to grip a certain amount of snow in the treads, then they stick that snow to the ground to generate traction. self cleaning defeats this entirely, which is why mud tires generally make lousy on-road winter tires.
For ice, and roads where you get a thin ( <12") skim of snow over a hard surface, the 'limit' is when your braking power exceeds your vehicles weight. by that, I mean that your vehicle does not put enough weight down to allow you to use the brakes. in the Niva ( 2600lbs stock) anything over 235's is the pits on ice because my weight per square inch is so low. its a friction thing - apply 1 lb /square inch pressure to a sheet of sandpaper, and try an move it across a sheet of steel..pretty easy. now try it with 10 lbs per square inch...much harder. the lighter footed the rig, the closer you get to scenario 'a', which, in real world terms is when you lock up the tires, rather than slowing the vehicle. the narrower the tire, the higher the weight per square inch, and the more you can do with teh available traction. ( note that distinction - sometimes, there simply ISNT traction for rubber tires)

sipes, studs, chains, funky compunds with crushed walnut shells in it, playing ith tire pressures..all are attempts at creating more friction for handling / acceleration / braking. for what I do, skinnys ( 235/85R16's, or even older 7.50*16's) w/ sipes, and studs, augmented by chains for really bad conditions seem to be the trick - but studs, and chains arent legal everywhere, and are annoying if you have to keep putting them on / off.

chris
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Old 12-12-2002, 11:30 AM
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Default Re: Mud tires in the snow...is this bad?

After agreeing with everything Chris says, another thing to point out is that chains will act much the same in powder or packed snow as mud tires will (even more so) - they will dig to the ground if you spin the tires. Chains are not good on ice like a mud tire too, although they can break up a slick glassy surface which may create some traction.

If a person wants both deep snow digging power and good on-road safety, then a possibility is to have a good all-terrain or even a good all-season tire for the winter roads and highways, and then put on the tire chains when wanting to dig in.
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